Is anyone else just... failing?

[charlesk]

I started my reef tank last July doing everything right, cycled dry rock, read all the articles, watched every BRSTV episode and got all the best equipment. I added my first fish after 2 months, all went well. After 6 months, my first frag, that went well then I got confident and added 10 frags. No frag growth and almost all have either died or in critical care stage. I learned a lot from this posting that I am not alone and that failing is sometimes normal and expected. I guess I got too excited and confident. Now I am going to do my best to be patient and nurse the remaining coral to health before adding any more frags. I hope one day I will have one of those tanks I have envied.

 

[MagicMarker]

Wow, this may be my fav thread here ever. So much of what we usually read and see photos of are the success stories. It’s so reassuring to know I’m not the only one with lots of experience but still achieving results I would expect from a beginner.
In fact my 1st 2 reef tanks, a 12g and 72g on tight budgets, were both more successful in their first year than my current tank, a reefer 450 w all the latest expensive tech. And yes, consistent with many of the posts here, my 1st 2 tanks were started w live rock, while my current tank was started with dry, acid-bathed pukani.
But, IMO it’s not quite that simple. Maybe the dry rock accounts for my 1st year of subpar results. But I’m now about 3 yrs in.
I think the challenge is two-fold. Good changes happen slowwww. AND, there is frequently more than 1 problem. So even if you tweak 1 thing only and are patient enough to wait, not seeing any improvement doesn’t mean the tweak wasn’t an improvement in its own right.
I actually had ok results in the first year. Kept easy acros from month 6 to month 12 but then all died slowly. Researched ALOT, then tweaked lighting schedule and waited. Then did the same with salinity. Both tweaks I think were improvements, but no noticeable improvements to coral survivability. Now think I starved them, cuz was lazy w water changes and was using a 2-part without trace elements. Since switched to B-ionic, but then got cyano. Think cyano was in part due to increasing feedings but mainly due to old RO profiler n carbon block. Replaced them, and did bunch of water changes while blowing detritus off rocks WOW and siphoning cyano. Now removing continents of sand that have mysteriously turned into concrete.
Coral health finally starting to suggest I’ve got everything close, but ask me in 3 months lol!!
But thank u all, cuz hearing everyone else’s similar failures, prevents me from concluding that everyone else is successful and reefing just ain’t for me. With patience, persistence, and learning from each other, we will hopefully all get there... one day.

 

[ectoaesthetics]

I don't know if it's ever been suggested to you, but I "inoculated" my tank (set up with Pukani like yours) two separate times with Garf Grunge. It turned the tank around. I think it added a (I know it did actually) a ton of biodiversity the pukani was lacking. Just a suggestion worth looking into!

Love this. Garfs systems are really old and very diverse. I have also used their grunge in the past. I am an enormous fan of adding "junk detritus" into the tank. It is teeming with diversity. Won't matter if you buy it or simply suck it out of a friends tank that you trust. I do much prefer staring at the tank that I am taking it from than ordering it from somewhere.

 

[LivinTheSwreefLife]

But thank u all, cuz hearing everyone else’s similar failures, prevents me from concluding that everyone else is successful and reefing just ain’t for me. With patience, persistence, and learning from each other, we will hopefully all get there... one day.

I am so, so happy at the volume of supportive responses this has received and others who have been willing to admit that they are struggling too. I really thought I was the only one, other than total newbies just starting out, who was having this much trouble. It's really encouraging to not feel so alone.

 

[tastyfish]

I'm failing massively at the moment. I had a thriving reef tank full of Bali and Aussie acros wiped out by a doser meltdown a year ago. Now, the tank just refuses to grow any SPS. This is the sort of thing that makes me want to go fish only.

 

[Brew12]

I am so, so happy at the volume of supportive responses this has received and others who have been willing to admit that they are struggling too. I really thought I was the only one, other than total newbies just starting out, who was having this much trouble. It's really encouraging to not feel so alone.

If this were easy and no one other than noobs struggled, there would be almost no demand for coral. Hobbyists would trade frags with each other until everyone had what they wanted and then would start tossing the clippings once everyones tanks grew out.
This hobby isn't big enough that all the coral demand is for people entering the hobby.

 

[saltnewb]

The struggle is real. I’ve had my tank for a little over a year and I thought it was doing great. But then I realized I got lazy and my parameters have been way off. I’ve been slowly getting them back into the right ranges.

 

[srad750c]

acid washing old live rock will kill off anything that might still be in the rock , old dead dry bacteria PO4 etc.... putting it a bucket with water and acid will bubble like crazy and be brown , after a good soak in vinegar and then water you basically have fresh clean rock , it will be white but in time will cover nicely with coraline

Thanks for the info, but I will pass. I have kept live rock in 50 gallon trash can in a non climate controlled storage unit here in NC for 4 years, only adjusting salinity monthly. Used to restart my existing tank that has been running for 11 years. I've only had two issues, ULN and bryopsis(work in progress, no measurable PO4 with RedSea test but still grows:mad. Tank has had some inverts of some sort at all times, decided to try SPS 2 years ago. I enjoy SPS so I'm going full SPS soon. Will use same rock, no acid bath. I never had issue with NO3 and PO4. Patience seems to be the key with reefs, too many people want the perfect tank in less than a year, it takes time for the tank and an individual to learn his/her tank.

 

[srad750c]

If this were easy and no one other than noobs struggled, there would be almost no demand for coral. Hobbyists would trade frags with each other until everyone had what they wanted and then would start tossing the clippings once everyones tanks grew out.
This hobby isn't big enough that all the coral demand is for people entering the hobby.

Then we should start restocking the fading reefs, I wonder if it's possible?

 

[Potatohead]

I am convinced dry rock (dead rock, marco rock etc) is a major "issue" with a lot of new reefers and/or new tanks. I have had success in the past but my new tank has been a total mess. The only major difference was starting with marco rock. I have never had issues with cyano and gha like I have had with this tank, not even close. This tank is about 14 months old now (and most of the rock is more like 20 months old) and is just seemingly starting to come around. I will never, ever start another tank without live rock, or dry rock that has cured for at least six months or so ever again. I was concerned about pests with live rock but the other problems caused is WAY worse (and much more expensive).

 

[Centerline]

It has dropped a full dKH, but that has been slowly over the course of months (like, since September) and mostly due to reading that higher alk with low nutrients was bad news. It doesn't swing up and down abruptly/often

I run alk at 11-12 and have only had a problem when P04 drops below .02.

 

[HolisticBear]

Sounds like you have a good plan. If you are battling hydroids, there are some good R2R threads on using fenbendazole to wipe them out. Something you can investigate later.

 

[Cae]

My current DT was started less than one year ago with all live rock, and SPS corals have done exceptionally well in it right from the start. A variety of acros, montis, all have done very well. (In fact SPSs have overall done much better than LPS corals and even zoas in this tank. )

Another great thing about quality live rock is that will likely see much faster and more luxuriant development of coralline algae with it, not only on the rocks but throughout the tank. Pink and purple coralline covers every illuminated rock surface in my tank, and when I add new small pieces, they are also covered in coralline within a few weeks. I don't think I would be seeing this so soon if I had started with dry rock.

Coincident with luxurious coralline algae growth, other forms of algae have a much harder time getting established. I had one brief outbreak of cyano (due to overdosing amino acids), that's been it for bad algae in this tank.

Of course, drawback of live rock is that I've had to deal with my share of unwanted hitchhikers; aptasia, very small hydroids, predatory crabs, asterina stars, bristle worms, a tiny mantis shrimp.

I've just started my next tank. It's going to be more of a backreef, less flow, more nutrients. Lots and lots of anemones, clownfish, and shrimp. I'm planning on using almost entirely dry rock because I want to do more specific aquascape planning than I can with the locally available live rock. Since SPS are not a priority, the dry rock should be ok. I gave it all an acid wash with muriatic, it's now in a lanthanum chloride bath to remove as much phosphate as possible, and next I'll cycle it in the same brute with a heater, powerheads, a rock from the other tank, Seed & Tim's bacteria, and ammonium chloride. Only when it's cycled will I put it in the new DT. I then plan to take a lot of coralline from my other tank and spread it around the new one to seed it; keeping calcium/alkalinity up and adding a bit of strontium should also help. If I can get coralline algae established quickly, I hope to avoid the problems with bad algae commonly seen with dry rock setups.

Can you seed your coralline algae while it's near the end of cycling to target your rock more. I am just curious as I will have to do the same thing in a couple of weeks.

 

[Rockit]

Love this. Garfs systems are really old and very diverse. I have also used their grunge in the past.

Have you used it in the past few years? I like the idea of biodiversity and was interested in purchasing some, but more recent experiences I read about it made me hesitant. All I saw was people complaining they got dead, foul smelling sludge.
Wish more places had a similar product.

 

[Brynn]

I have never seen 1/2 that many individuals on a thread. So funny. I had to point out.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

I don't know if it's ever been suggested to you, but I "inoculated" my tank (set up with Pukani like yours) two separate times with Garf Grunge. It turned the tank around. I think it added a (I know it did actually) a ton of biodiversity the pukani was lacking. Just a suggestion worth looking into!

Garf Grunge... I'll look it up and give it a try. Right now I'm open to just about anything. First ive heard of it.

 

[rkpetersen]

First one I did, I found out my Iodine was through the roof. you can also identify if you have something rusting in your tank etc.

Hah, I actually discovered both of these on my very first ICPOES. First off, iodine supplements are the devil's plaything. Second, a prematurely rusting pump can release a substantial amount of tin. ;Meh

 

[rkpetersen]

Can you seed your coralline algae while it's near the end of cycling to target your rock more. I am just curious as I will have to do the same thing in a couple of weeks.

I'm doing the cycle in the dark, so coralline algae added during that stage would probably just die off. Although adding a bit probably wouldn't hurt; there might be spores that would survive and lodge in the rocks.

I plan to add it to the new tank the day after I add the cycled rocks, assuming I'm happy enough with water quality, flow and lighting. And I'll add more a few days later, and so on. Fortunately my sump needs a good cleanout so perfect timing, two birds, etc.

 

[ectoaesthetics]

Have you used it in the past few years? I like the idea of biodiversity and was interested in purchasing some, but more recent experiences I read about it made me hesitant. All I saw was people complaining they got dead, foul smelling sludge.
Wish more places had a similar product.

Last time I used it was about 3 years ago. But it is exactly that -a bag of smelly grimy crap -which is what you are looking for. It’s weird to me that people order crumby grunge off the bottom of the tank then are stunned that it doesn’t look nice or smell pretty. You are basically ordering junk with bacteria in it.

I do remember finding some pest and removing the pest (maybe a couple of flat worms?). I think when I set up my 24” cube at the end of summer that I will probably order it again. I got a ton of worm, pods, sponges, etc. just don’t expect some beautiful package and stunning rock to arrive. It’s junk from the bottom of a tank -which is EXACTLY what I want. But I will dump it into a 10 gallon with water and a heater to sift through it to make sure I don’t get stuff I don’t want. Still more manageable than combing though 60lbs of LR... and still has far less impact on the worlds reefs.

For those not familiar with GARF they are a very old school reefing facility (mostly focused on education). With a website that hasn’t changed much since 1999. Great folks and definitely have some of the oldest tanks around. But expect old school -they don’t do it for the money lol. They were one of the origainal big backers of culturing pods and using man made rock (really pushed aragacrete structures for years -sorta caught on finally with “Real Reef Rock”). If you google pictures, grunge is pretty much old chunky sand with loads of stuff in it, it’s not pretty, it’s not sexy, but it is exactly what our dry rock is missing.

 

[MnFish1]

acid washing old live rock will kill off anything that might still be in the rock , old dead dry bacteria PO4 etc.... putting it a bucket with water and acid will bubble like crazy and be brown , after a good soak in vinegar and then water you basically have fresh clean rock , it will be white but in time will cover nicely with coraline

What is the difference between acid washed rock and 'dry rock'. Neither contains living things.