Is Apex worth the $?

[Gil03]

A week ago I decided to purchase the new apex controller (wireless) and since day 1! it has not worked properly, everything from the cond probe being sporadic, the ORP probe arriving in the box crusted to the unit just flat out shutting down power to everything plugged into it for what I was told was rebooting due to comm loss. This happens several times a day up until yesterday when the unit just flat out stopped working all together with blinking orange lights on both the bus and energy bar.

Apex has been of little help due to their hours and not being available on weekends, I even took off work early yesterday for a scheduled tech to call me while I'm at my tank and that turned out to be another blunder because they failed to note that I don't use a laptop nor desktop at home even though I specifically informed them of that via email well before the scheduled call. This brings me to my question...Is the hassle worth the cost of this controller? just a quick search and there's a ton of people saying this products liability isn't what it should be. Is this the norm and whats to be expected form this product?

Reefs are already finicky and a lot of work and the #1 concern with a tank is stability and so far this thing has been nothing but a liability with limited tech support. Should I hang tight and hope it gets figured out or should I return the faulty item? $800 is a hefty price to pay for anything that simply hasn't worked brand new out of the box.

 

[Ryan Browne]

Sounds like you have a faulty controller. Return for a new one. I have an Apex Gold, now called the Apex Classic and I have No problems with it. Its been running continuously since 2014. The controller does so many things for me. The Apex fusion App is probably my favorite, I love being able to turn things on and off from anywhere. The graphs allows me to see the basic health of my tank when im away. Not going to get into everything it can do, but its probably one of the most important parts of my setup, aside from the tank and sump. You might want to check if you have updated the firmware on your apex, sometimes that fixes problems. Good luck hope you get it fixed.

 

[Gil03]

Sounds like you have a faulty controller. Return for a new one. I have an Apex Gold, now called the Apex Classic and I have No problems with it. Its been running continuously since 2014. The controller does so many things for me. The Apex fusion App is probably my favorite, I love being able to turn things on and off from anywhere. The graphs allows me to see the basic health of my tank when im away. Not going to get into everything it can do, but its probably one of the most important parts of my setup, aside from the tank and sump. You might want to check if you have updated the firmware on your apex, sometimes that fixes problems. Good luck hope you get it fixed.

I bought the unit last weekend brand new with what Apex support said was a "Very Old" firmware version which I updated right away but it didn't fix anything. I assume you have yours hard wired to the internet being that its the gold version, according to their support I was told that there is a plethora of factors that affect the units stability when using it wirelessly. My question is if its so finicky on wireless then why incorporate that function? Anyhow as it stands I have to pay them a several hundred dollar deposit for them to ship me a new apex unit in which I'll get back after they receive my unit and inspect it for any damage.

 

[XNavyDiver]

I bought the unit last weekend brand new with what Apex support said was a "Very Old" firmware version which I updated right away but it didn't fix anything. I assume you have yours hard wired to the internet being that its the gold version, according to their support I was told that there is a plethora of factors that affect the units stability when using it wirelessly. My question is if its so finicky on wireless then why incorporate that function? Anyhow as it stands I have to pay them a several hundred dollar deposit for them to ship me a new apex unit in which I'll get back after they receive my unit and inspect it for any damage.

Sorry to hear about your problems. When I got mine back in May, I had a few problems also. Getting it and my smartphone paired was a pain, but once it was all sorted out, its worked flawlessly. I'm very happy with my Apex.

 

[PEP12]

I have two Apex systems one 2016 and I have just upgraded my classic to the 2016 not easy but worth it, I cannot give praise enough for the support I got from Neptune Systems they helped me through this process with the transition problems I had and it so much better with Wi-Fi much stronger signal, it is of the utmost important to make sure you are using the latest firmware to get things running properly or you will have problems

 

[mikeandkerry]

Same thing here at first was a pain had couple issues with the energy bar
But after that it's been up and running ever sense and has saved me from a few pickles being able to monitor it from my phone so....money spent has saved me a complete tank crash

 

[Ryan Browne]

I think you might have heard the support info wrong. All version of the Apex work just fine using Wi-Fi, yes you can buy a wireless adapter for the older models. What the Neptune support tech was saying is that when you "Update the Firmware", you must connect your Apex to a wired network. If you read the section of the Apex manual regarding updating your firmware, it tells you to plug your Apex into a wired/ethernet port of your home router. The computer you use to update the Apex firmware should also be on the same wired network. This is where the stability issue comes from; Only when you are updating your firmware. After the firmware update is complete you can then remove your Apex from the wired network, and connect it back to wifi for normal use. If you did update the firmware on your Apex while connected to wifi, its possible the firmware may have installed wrong causing all the issue you have. Hopefully this all made sense, if not read the Apex manual it explains all of this.

I bought the unit last weekend brand new with what Apex support said was a "Very Old" firmware version which I updated right away but it didn't fix anything. I assume you have yours hard wired to the internet being that its the gold version, according to their support I was told that there is a plethora of factors that affect the units stability when using it wirelessly. My question is if its so finicky on wireless then why incorporate that function? Anyhow as it stands I have to pay them a several hundred dollar deposit for them to ship me a new apex unit in which I'll get back after they receive my unit and inspect it for any damage.

 

[Gil03]

I think you might have heard the support info wrong. All version of the Apex work just fine using Wi-Fi, yes you can buy a wireless adapter for the older models. What the Neptune support tech was saying is that when you "Update the Firmware", you must connect your Apex to a wired network. If you read the section of the Apex manual regarding updating your firmware, it tells you to plug your Apex into a wired/ethernet port of your home router. The computer you use to update the Apex firmware should also be on the same wired network. This is where the stability issue comes from; Only when you are updating your firmware. After the firmware update is complete you can then remove your Apex from the wired network, and connect it back to wifi for normal use. If you did update the firmware on your Apex while connected to wifi, its possible the firmware may have installed wrong causing all the issue you have. Hopefully this all made sense, if not read the Apex manual it explains all of this.

Per Apex support you're fully able to update the firmware via wifi, which is what I did and it updated both units just fine and very quickly I might add. The instability according to them is regarding WIFI in general in that they've tested that even walking in front of the apex controller when connected wirelessly can drop the signal significantly potentially causing a reboot among other wifi related issues again..this is directly from their technical advisor.My tank and controller are fairly close to the modem/router but not close enough to hardwire, also my controller was down when I got home yesterday and I immediately checked my internet speeds and it was over 300mb/s download, I know speeds aren't everything when dealing with these issues but it certainly isn't a lack of speed. Plus the unit never rebooted as it is supposed to when losing connection. It was a constant orange blinking light both bus and energy bar all night.

Update: I gave them the deposit to ship me out a whole new unit per the tech's advice as he was concerned that the unit may be faulty. I should have it Monday so we'll see how that goes...

 

[Radman73]

Per Apex support you're fully able to update the firmware via wifi, which is what I did and it updated both units just fine and very quickly I might add. The instability according to them is regarding WIFI in general in that they've tested that even walking in front of the apex controller when connected wirelessly can drop the signal significantly potentially causing a reboot among other wifi related issues again..this is directly from their technical advisor.My tank and controller are fairly close to the modem/router but not close enough to hardwire, also my controller was down when I got home yesterday and I immediately checked my internet speeds and it was over 300mb/s download, I know speeds aren't everything when dealing with these issues but it certainly isn't a lack of speed. Plus the unit never rebooted as it is supposed to when losing connection. It was a constant orange blinking light both bus and energy bar all night.

Update: I gave them the deposit to ship me out a whole new unit per the tech's advice as he was concerned that the unit may be faulty. I should have it Monday so we'll see how that goes...

Your issues make me wonder if you got one of the first controllers released, some of which apparently were defective out of the gate. I've used a couple of different Apex controllers since 2010 without issue. My 2016 Apex was just delivered today though. Got mine from BRS so I'm pretty sure they go through their stock pretty quick. Hopefully your new one is problem free, as that's the expectation most of us have come to expect from Neptune.

 

[DLHDesign]

The instability according to them is regarding WIFI in general in that they've tested that even walking in front of the apex controller when connected wirelessly can drop the signal significantly potentially causing a reboot among other wifi related issues again..

Sounds like you got a replacement on the way (which is great to hear - better safe than sorry), but I wanted to support this bit of information. There are many factors that can disrupt a wifi signal - distance and obstructions being the top two, in general. Water is also a poor conductor of wifi signals (especially that of some older but still common types of routers), so if your controller is on the opposite side of the tank from the router, that can greatly impact the signal strength and/or reliability. Even being close to the tank at all - even with a direct line not passing through the tank - can result in a degraded signal.
The Apex is an "active" device - meaning that it's constantly trying to get and receive a signal out into the world. That's how you can control it from your phone, for example. As such, the device heavily relies upon that connection to be available. There is a "retry" in the device which allows it to disconnect and reconnect occasionally, but if that cycle happens too often, the device must at some point decide that it's just not worth the effort of trying again. At that point, even if the network comes back (likely temporarily), the device will already have given up.
A firmware upgrade is basically just a (relatively) big download followed by an install of the OS. If the network signal is spotty during that big download, it's possible that the resulting file can become corrupted. If that happens and the install is attempted anyways (because it was just a small fault), then the device can be "bricked" - it can get stuck in a state that can't easily be recovered from (if at all). For that reason, most manufacturers recommend that firmware updates are done via a wired connection.

Good luck with your next unit! If you still have wifi network problems, you could try some powerline adapters. (Caveat: I've tried something like this in the past (when they were brand new to the market) and didn't have great success with them, but I'd think they have improved some...)

 

[Salty1962]

I have been told that you never update firmware wirelessly. If it losses connection while updating the head unit, it really messes things up. I could be wrong but I'll never do it. JME

 

[Gil03]

I have been told that you never update firmware wirelessly. If it losses connection while updating the head unit, it really messes things up. I could be wrong but I'll never do it. JME

here's their video, nothing mentioning that it is strongly advised that you hardwire the unit before updating..furthermore if I'm not mistaken even their actual website instructions give you two options (Wireless/wired). In general we update a lot of our tech wirelessly nowadays and while I do see the potential of an issue doing it this way I think its way less of an issue than it used to be. I imagine if it were that big a problem the manufacturer would advise people to only update hard wired. FTR my unit updated wirelessly with no problem and pretty quick and was confirmed by their tech support.

Does anyone know if there's something I should be doing in my router settings to help? I'm using coxs' panoramic wifi modem/router.

 

[andyg1960]

I too am a new owner of the 2016 Apex. Purchased from BRS on Black Friday. This is my first Apex. I agree that updating the firmware wirelessly is OK and is what I did. I am not having any issues with wireless connectivity dropping, the interface, etc. I am still learning all the aspects of programming, but I'm not having any issues with the Apex itself, except for the salinity reading that is not completely accurate. Again this is my first Apex so I'm far from an expert, but it seems like you may have some sort of defect in the unit, and the new one that sounds like it's on its way to you will hopefully solve your problem. Even after the short time I've had this unit I can tell that it has the potential to really take my reef keeping to a new level.

 

[Steven91]

Have an Apex Classic, kinda wish i had the money to get the newer 2016 model, and I would never dream of running a tank without it. I think its time to upgrade my heaters as my temp alert keeps going off lol

 

[Radman73]

Have an Apex Classic, kinda wish i had the money to get the newer 2016 model, and I would never dream of running a tank without it. I think its time to upgrade my heaters as my temp alert keeps going off lol

That was my thought after about 6 months with an Apex Jr. Love it and I only ever barely scratched the surface of what it's capable of. Hoping to experiment more with the new one.

 

[Steven91]

That was my thought after about 6 months with an Apex Jr. Love it and I only ever barely scratched the surface of what it's capable of. Hoping to experiment more with the new one.

I add the ato on to it and it's works extremely well. Gonna add more onto it

 

[DLHDesign]

Does anyone know if there's something I should be doing in my router settings to help? I'm using coxs' panoramic wifi modem/router.

I don't know that router, but if it creates two different networks, be sure to connect the Apex to the 5GHz one - the 2.4GHz signal will be disrupted by the water of the tank more than the 5GHz will.

Cox bundles in support with their service, don't they? If so, it may be worth having someone come out and check if the tank is creating a dead zone that can be solved using a repeater.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

I was and still having issues with my apex. Bought it in August, still can't get conductivity probe calibrated. I have tried multiple packets and ways of dipping it with no luck. Reading will settle just won't do the other thing. I just get frustrated to the point I leave it and forget about it for weeks at a time and life happens so really gotta get on this and email neptune about this.

Second issue is power. This thing constantly loses power to the point on my
second tank the t5's had to go on a separate plug and timer after the ballast failing to light the bulbs after it turned back on. Wiring is good and nothing else in the house loses power not even my power center I have reports any low voltages. I do keep it on a breaker that only shares with the lights in our basement and the second tank is on its own breaker.

Third it was constantly losing connection to the internet. After all of the lag and problems on our network the problem was narrowed down to the modem choking the bandwidth with all of the devices we have on it. So far since replacement we have has no issues.

I also update wirelessly with no issues while it was connected.

 

[flowflezy]

Nice video

 

[vertigo01]

I am a total newbie to Apex and controllers in general.
Initial set up was daunting because I had no idea as to what I was doing.
However, after I searched for the help I needed online and followed the instructions, all has been golden.

Now if only I could understand the code aspect, I will all the more merry.
That will come with time (I Hope) and asking questions.

That said, I updated my 2016 model wirelessly and it has been running without instance for just a bit over 2 mths.

What is you Wifi signal strength and download/upload speed?

Could tge issue be that the speeds are too slow and signal strength be too week?