XNavyDiver
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Another plus for 16' apex users..... the soon to be released Trident.
Is Apex worth the $?
- Thread starter Gil03
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Servillius
Active Member
I try hard not to malign companies lightly. That said, I went from three Apex systems in my house to none about a year ago and I couldn’t be happier. I’m now using Digital Aquatics and while they’re simpler, they’re way less frustrating. The problems are primarily twofold.
1. You need an IT guy to get them running and keep them running. The programming can be unnecessarily complex but it works and it’s not that big a deal. On the other hand the wireless connectivity and the updates had my systems shutting down at the worst times and getting things working again was always a multi day frustration. Every time I’d find myself going through a rediculous amount of work to get things back to being normal again. For a system we rely on, the amount of unreliability was just unacceptable. I want a controller that works in plain English.
2. Customer service was terrible. When you finally got through to them by phone they were very helpful. Getting there however was rediculous. I had $4000 invested in their stuff and when I had a problem I had to beg to speak to a human being. Several times we’d email back and forth at one email a day. I’d get an email telling me to try something I’d already tried, send an immediate response explaining this had already been done, then sit and wait a day for a response. In some cases I’d beg to speak to a person for a week before I could get someone on the phone. In one case after a week of begging it took a few minutes on the phone for them to agree I had two useless units and to replace them. For the money we spend on their system we simply should not be being chased away from human interaction. Making their units work is not my day job. When I switched to DA I had a question about calibration, I called their number, got a person and got an answer and some useful advice in minutes. It all still works flawlessly if not as prettily.
1. You need an IT guy to get them running and keep them running. The programming can be unnecessarily complex but it works and it’s not that big a deal. On the other hand the wireless connectivity and the updates had my systems shutting down at the worst times and getting things working again was always a multi day frustration. Every time I’d find myself going through a rediculous amount of work to get things back to being normal again. For a system we rely on, the amount of unreliability was just unacceptable. I want a controller that works in plain English.
2. Customer service was terrible. When you finally got through to them by phone they were very helpful. Getting there however was rediculous. I had $4000 invested in their stuff and when I had a problem I had to beg to speak to a human being. Several times we’d email back and forth at one email a day. I’d get an email telling me to try something I’d already tried, send an immediate response explaining this had already been done, then sit and wait a day for a response. In some cases I’d beg to speak to a person for a week before I could get someone on the phone. In one case after a week of begging it took a few minutes on the phone for them to agree I had two useless units and to replace them. For the money we spend on their system we simply should not be being chased away from human interaction. Making their units work is not my day job. When I switched to DA I had a question about calibration, I called their number, got a person and got an answer and some useful advice in minutes. It all still works flawlessly if not as prettily.
I received the replacement unit and hooked up/calibrated the probes last night, so far so good as of this morning however I've yet to hook anything up to the energy bar. I really wish the Apex unit was capable of utilizing the 5ghz network as well as the 2.4ghz, it's 2017 and any router worth a dang has the two channels I'm not sure why Apex is slacking in that department. I also think the so called lab grade probes are shotty at best, both the conductivity probes i've used give me readings all over the place even after calibrating per their instructions. Why put them in there if they're not going to be accurate and I definitely don't think they should be charging what they do for such an unstable unit overall. Not being able to call and actually talk to someone is a big sign of issues to come IMO as well as not being open on the weekends for tech support. I don't know how you can charge nearly $1k for a controller in the reefing hobby where stability is KEY and not be available on the weekends when most people actually have the time to tinker with their tanks. Having me give them a $300 deposit to send back their faulty unit is also suspect if you ask me. As you can tell I'm not thrilled about my experience with Neptune as a whole, even though when working properly and I can see the potential of the controller it's overshadowed by my worry that the dang thing is going to stop working and shut the whole tank down again for whatever reason smh.
MIReefer78
Community Member
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I agree with what others have said. The Apex is a fickle beast out of the box when it comes to setting it up. It took me several calls with tech support to get everything working properly.
With that being said, my system has been running flawlessly for months now and I really like it. The only exception would be with the flow sensors. Mine were all junk from day 1 so I don’t use them but do use the FMM module. The upcoming Trident has the potential to be a total game changer especially if it can be programmed with the DOS to maintain stable KH and CA. That’ll boil down to the accuracy and usability of the final product.
IMO is the Apex Worth it? I would say it depends on your system and needs. It seems to have the most functionality of all the controllers out there but Neptune really needs to get the usability and the software squared away. You shouldn’t have to be a software engineer or at the very least be fluent in network configuration to get a $800 product to work out of the box. Perhaps the 2016 Apex release was a bit rushed. I feel like this technology is still in its infancy but has made huge strides in the last couple of years. I can envision completely automated hassle free tanks using platforms like the Apex in the next couple of years.
With that being said, my system has been running flawlessly for months now and I really like it. The only exception would be with the flow sensors. Mine were all junk from day 1 so I don’t use them but do use the FMM module. The upcoming Trident has the potential to be a total game changer especially if it can be programmed with the DOS to maintain stable KH and CA. That’ll boil down to the accuracy and usability of the final product.
IMO is the Apex Worth it? I would say it depends on your system and needs. It seems to have the most functionality of all the controllers out there but Neptune really needs to get the usability and the software squared away. You shouldn’t have to be a software engineer or at the very least be fluent in network configuration to get a $800 product to work out of the box. Perhaps the 2016 Apex release was a bit rushed. I feel like this technology is still in its infancy but has made huge strides in the last couple of years. I can envision completely automated hassle free tanks using platforms like the Apex in the next couple of years.
Update- I've had the new replacement unit up and running for several days now and haven't had any issues. Setting it up went much easier the second time around, not that the initial first setup was bad so kudos to Neptune for making the setup pretty easy. Now if they could put more emphasis on quality control and attention to detail maybe their probes can get better.
Radman73
Valuable Member
I started with a Jr and loved it. Be sure you know its limitations regarding modules supported. I eventually upgraded to what is now the classic and currently have a '16 Apex under the tree.
LuizW13
Well-Known Member
Yes, But i have less than 20gal of water in my system. I figured the Junior would be more than enough to handle my nano. Are you saying it's best to go with the 'adult' version anyway?
Radman73
Valuable Member
Jr is perfect for that sized system. Only reason I'd suggest going with a Classic or '16 Apex is if you plan on upgrading in the future. Even then, the Jr a capable system, but you begin to get limited depending on what you want to monitor or control with larger systems. Not trying to talk you out of the Jr. It's a great starter system.
I think the "Jr" is really more about the amount of control you have out of the box rather than it's applicability to a specific sized tank. In other words the higher the tier the more control you have on the tank straight out of the box. Having had a nano sized tank I know that attention to detail is a lot more important than bigger tanks therefore you could make the argument that the more monitored control you have on the tank the better. TBH though I went with the newer version mainly for the wireless capabilities out of the box more than anything.
Radman73
Valuable Member
Yes. Most of us got/get around this by simply using a wifi extender for the Apex. Generally around $3o. Still, plug it in directly for performing updates.
jasonrusso
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I have 2 tanks, a 210 and a 34gal Red Sea Nano.
The 210 started with a Jr, then I added a PM1 and 2 used EB8s (used). So for $600 I have 20 outlets of control.
The 34 has a Jr with a PM1. The Red Sea has a power center built into it. I put everything I want to use on feed mode on the power center so that only used one outlet. The heater is on another, fan on another, and the skimmer/ato on the last. So I got away with 4 outlets.
Vincent100
Valuable Member
I don't like mine
My salt is 35 but it just can't read it
I'v had loads of help from Neptune but no help at all
Basically they say some equipment in my tank messes with the conductivity probe
Yet i'v turned everything off and still it won't read 35
It's the new wireless version and in my eyes doesn't work properly
Rant lol
My salt is 35 but it just can't read it
I'v had loads of help from Neptune but no help at all
Basically they say some equipment in my tank messes with the conductivity probe
Yet i'v turned everything off and still it won't read 35
It's the new wireless version and in my eyes doesn't work properly
Rant lol
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Try using your smart phone in the very same spot as your controller - test your wifi connection / how many bars.
Maybe there's EMF interference or shielding going on.
You can get wifi repeaters cheap enough, to boost the signal to that area.
(Sorry if this info appears already)
Maybe there's EMF interference or shielding going on.
You can get wifi repeaters cheap enough, to boost the signal to that area.
(Sorry if this info appears already)
BoomCorals
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I have had very little issues with my 2016 apex. Works great for me. I have three eb832, a pm1 I added since my kh guardian monitor uses the ph slot to display KH, two DOS, the ATK ATO, etc.
LuizW13
Well-Known Member
So, people were dishing out nearly $1000 dollars for a fancy aquarium controller that didn't come standard with wifi? Just can't get away from microtransactions these days, can we?
Radman73
Valuable Member
Nearly 1k? The classic is $550. The Jr less. Not sure where the nearly 1k comes from. Now, the '16 Apex is $800, but it does come with Wifi connectivity built-in. Though, gauging it off this thread, it hasn't exactly been smooth sailing.
