Is calcium reactor worth the buck?

[Borat]

I understand as a chemical engineer for 20 years and wont argue with someone who knows all.
Before bones I ran manmade media the sameway with no change to my systems ph.

Whats the PH of your effluent and how many DKH/day does your tank consume?

I appreciate your sacrcasm - but it's Dr Borat here with a PhD from top 7 universities in the world, not just someone who "knows it all"

 

[Borat]

Not going to argue but I do disagree as many do that run no ph probe or controller have no issues with tank ph.
My effluent dkh is 22 and I do drip it into a small cylinder of manmade media.

That's quite a low DKH.. my effluent DKH is 40 and some others driver it as hard as 60...

 

[X-37B]

Whats the PH of your effluent and how many DKH/day does your tank consume?

I dont really check it but for you I just did. Its ph 6.6 dkh was 20.6 today which keeps me at a tank dkh of 8-8.5. Ph was 8.0 in the tank as the lights are just comming on.
Its all good as their are many ways to run a system

 

[Borat]

I dont dose anything to counter the ph. I always have high ph. My tank is also in a basement without open windows. Been like that for about a decade
Carx effluent is how i keep ph stable.

Lucky you are! I run a refugium and an ATS and I dose about 1% of saturated Kalk solution - still only manage to keep PH around 8.0.

 

[X-37B]

That's quite a low DKH.. my effluent DKH is 40 and some others driver it as hard as 60...

20-25 dkh works for my 120 total 150 gallon system.

 

[X-37B]

Lucky you are! I run refugium and ATS and I dose about 1% of saturated Kalk solution - still only manage to keep PH around 8.0.

Well I just setup a 30 gallon remote fuge, check my build, but it is for eliminating po4 reducers and not for ph control.

 

[X-37B]

Lucky you are! I run a refugium and an ATS and I dose about 1% of saturated Kalk solution - still only manage to keep PH around 8.0.

Start a build thread as I and many of us love to see others system.

 

[Borat]

 

[cocoReefer]

It is very interesting how different each tank behaves. Reef chemistry is half science and half magic

 

[kenchilada]

Reef chemistry is half science and half magic

And half $$$

 

[cocoReefer]

We are on the verge of stealing this thread though.

@jmichaelh7 what size tank do you have? And how much of what calc/alk are you dosing now?
Also, what reactors are you looking at?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'm looking at Calcium reactors for stability of dkh . I currently run trident / dos.

What do you guys recommend ?

They can be fine products, but they do not lead to alk stability any more than other products used appropriately.

In many instances, they can be less stable in alk, if you match dosing of products to the timing or measurement of alk demand, which is hard to do with a reactor.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

In my sytem ph in my tank is the same as it was when I dosed 2 part.
My system runs 24/7 and when tuned correctly very little co2 enters the system.

Just to clarify, ALL of the CO2 that you add into a CaCO3./CO2 reactor is entering the aquarium unless you drive out some of it by degassing the effluent first (few folks do that, but maybe you do). Where else would it go?

The CO2 is just a catalyst that dissolves the CaCO3. It does not get consumed by the process as a whole:

CO2 + H2O + CaCO3 (media) --> Ca++ + 2HCO3-- --> CaCO3 (coral skeletons) + CO2 + H2O

 

[Borat]

They can be fine products, but they do not lead to alk stability any more than other products used appropriately.

In many instances, they can be less stable in alk, if you match dosing of products to the timing or measurement of alk demand, which is hard to do with a reactor.

Not that i would agree.. its easier/more accurate to dose 600ml of dkh 50 solution than it is to dose 60ml of dkh 500 solution..

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Not that i would agree.. its easier/more accurate to dose 600ml of dkh 50 solution than it is to dose 60ml of dkh 500 solution..

Folks with automatic alk titrators and alk dosing controllers have much more alk stability than steady 24/7 dosing attains, and folks note an improvement in many cases (though I cannot be sure if that part is a placebo effect or not). Most alkalinity demand seems to arise during the light part of the day.

If dosing pump accuracy is a prime concern, one can easily dilute a dosing solution to any level within the evaporation limit.

 

[costaricareef]

I run my reactor with the Apex and Trident. Its a 15 year old Knop S-IV reactor. I am using a Kamoer FXSTP continuous doser to keep the effluent steady, but a pinch valve can accomplish the same out of a manifold or with a pump. My Alk swings are in the order of 0.3dkh between 8.8 and 9.1. Very stable. In my opinion, the bigger the tank, the more it is worth it in terms of cost. You do need to learn and understand how it functions and the relationship between the different systems.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

In my opinion, the bigger the tank, the more it is worth it in terms of cost.

I agree. IMO, that is the main draw of a CaCO3/CO2 reactor: long term cost for larger aquaria.

 

[Borat]

Folks with automatic alk titrators and alk dosing controllers have much more alk stability than steady 24/7 dosing attains, and folks note an improvement in many cases (though I cannot be sure if that part is a placebo effect or not). Most alkalinity demand seems to arise during the light part of the day.

If dosing pump accuracy is a prime concern, one can easily dilute a dosing solution to any level within

OK Randy, I appreciate you are a chemist - so I can't/wont challenge you there, so let's do some basic maths instead:
Assumption:
- 400l total volume
- Alk consumption is a mere 1DKH/day (some heavily stocked tanks would have 3-6 DKH consumption a day, so scale all numbers accordingly)
- you are dosing baking soda solution that's 500DKH
- your tank target to maintain 9.0 DKH level

In this setup you would be dosing 800ml of baking soda (undiluted) solution a day. Let's say that you dilute it by a factor of 10 to be "folkes that improve the accuracy". This means you would be dosing 8L of baking soda solution a day? Fancy having a swimming pool sized dosing container (you would need 2 of those to be exact, one fort DKH and one for Calcium)?
Ohh - forgot to mention that Iam one of those "folkes with automated dosing titrators" that perform 7 DKH tests a day..

 

[cocoReefer]

They can be fine products, but they do not lead to alk stability any more than other products used appropriately.

In many instances, they can be less stable in alk, if you match dosing of products to the timing or measurement of alk demand, which is hard to do with a reactor.

Agreed
I do dose calcium on occasion, as my alk tends to stay up but my calc will slowly drop. Seems like it should be the other way around, but its consistent

 

[X-37B]

Just to clarify, ALL of the CO2 that you add into a CaCO3./CO2 reactor is entering the aquarium unless you drive out some of it by degassing the effluent first (few folks do that, but maybe you do). Where else would it go?

The CO2 is just a catalyst that dissolves the CaCO3. It does not get consumed by the process as a whole:

CO2 + H2O + CaCO3 (media) --> Ca++ + 2HCO3-- --> CaCO3 (coral skeletons) + CO2 + H2O

Yes I may have worded that incorrectly. I do drip my effluent into a cylinder of media that may help degass the co2 thats present or reduce it enough so that it has little if any effect on my tanks ph.
The effluent is also close to my skimmers intake which may also help.