Is conventional wisdom about Mandarins wrong?

merkmerk73 · Aug 23, 2023

"Mandarins need to be fed 3-4 times a day or they'll starve!"

Is that true?

Or is it only true based on a diet of mass consumption of low nutrition copepods?

TDO pellets and mysis are much, much more nutritional.

Short digestive system or not - do captive bred, prepared/frozen fed mandarins have the same requirements for success?

ChiCity · Aug 23, 2023

you might get scooters to eat strictly pellets…
but a mandi will always prefer live over processed

and it’s not about feeding 4 times a day…
they eat all day, every day.
pecking at everything.

captive bred might be slightly easier…
but i don’t really see much of a difference.

spotted mandis have been the hardest for me

Anemone_Fanatic · Aug 23, 2023

They eat a pod every 10 seconds when the lights are on. Watch any video of them in an established tank, and observe the behavior.

So no, they don't eat 4 times a day. They eat 4,000 times a day. They are not fish to be kept in any scenario when you can't feed it as often as possible, or in any tank without at least 50lbs of rock and a good pod population.

nothing_fancy · Aug 23, 2023

as others have stated, they eat constantly, some will get lucky with farm raised mandarins eating prepared foods, or getting them to eat from feeders. Has to be a well established larger system IMO. Some will disagree but unless they have had the mandarin for over a year healthy in a situation other than that, say a tank less than 80-100g I would be skeptical. Smaller tanks be prepared to be culturing pods constantly to keep (1) Mandarin.

PotatoPig · Aug 23, 2023

Anemone_Fanatic said:
They eat a pod every 10 seconds when the lights are on. Watch any video of them in an established tank, and observe the behavior.

So no, they don't eat 4 times a day. They eat 4,000 times a day. They are not fish to be kept in any scenario when you can't feed it as often as possible, or in any tank without at least 50lbs of rock and a good pod population.

My Mandarin:

5 seconds hover to next location along rock
4.9 seconds carefully inspecting pod
0.1 seconds *peck*

Repeat x4000/day

In terms of feeding prepared foods - aside from the challenge of getting them to accept them these fish have a much much more leisurely approach to going after food than almost any other fish in the tank. Even if you’re giving them foods they’ll take they’re going to have a hard time getting to it before something else.

dschuffert · Aug 23, 2023

It all depends. I purchased two blue Mandarins from Biota a little over a year ago. They were small when I got the pair, around .5 inches long. They are about 2.5 inches long now and doing well. Biota recommended TDO pellets for feeding and advised that is what they feed them. I also add copepods and phytoplankton to the tank every month. The Mandarins I got from Biota seem to eat whatever I put in the tank.

MarineandReef Jaron · Aug 23, 2023

I just got a pair of mandarins in my Reefer 750. Loved the fish and dealt with plenty at the LFS I worked at years ago but this is my first attempt at home.

Years ago everyone who kept mandarins fed them nothing. They simply ate pods in the tank. The normal advice I heard was to have at least a 75-gallon tank and at least 50 lbs of real live rock per mandarin and wait at least 1 year for the tank to mature. I saw countless people keeping mandarins this way in the early 2000s.

I think that mandarins have gotten harder now that people are keeping smaller tanks, using dry rock, and using minimal aquascapes.

merkmerk73 · Aug 23, 2023

I'm not convinced every "peck" at the rocks is actually a copepod being eaten.

Pretty sure I've seen mine nipping at nothing

Anyways, a single TDO pellet has probably 100x the nutritional content of a copepod.

Anyone have experience keeping mandarins long term that are fed on frozen and prepared food?

Mr. Mojo Rising · Aug 23, 2023

I don't think that can be answered in one fishes life time. Its easy to see that countless years of evolution have shaped its head and mouth to specifically eat pods, its digestive system and immunity and everything have all adapted to be sustained off of pods only.

Even if pellets are nutritionally healthier, its not part of its natural diet. Who knows if it can even fully digest the pellets or if they are just wasted poop? Kind of like how we poop watermelon seeds. Would it live as many years on pellets compared to pods? Is it fair to the fish to even try to force it off of its preferred food when its for our benefit and not the fishes?

Court_Appointed_Hypeman · Aug 23, 2023

My mandarin has not pecked at rocks frequently in months. It eats an amphipod every now and then and thats about it. I do think it can just sit in its burrow and eat pods without even moving and that's where it probably gets more of its feedings. But the idea that they need to eat constantly I do beleive varies between individuals.

Court_Appointed_Hypeman · Aug 23, 2023

merkmerk73 said:
I'm not convinced every "peck" at the rocks is actually a copepod being eaten.

Pretty sure I've seen mine nipping at nothing

Anyways, a single TDO pellet has probably 100x the nutritional content of a copepod.

Anyone have experience keeping mandarins long term that are fed on frozen and prepared food?

You probably are not wrong, but also, a lot of copepods that they will eat you cannot see without magnification like holding them in a jar to light or magnfting glass or microscope.

afrokobe · Aug 23, 2023

ChiCity said:
you might get scooters to eat strictly pellets…
but a mandi will always prefer live over processed

and it’s not about feeding 4 times a day…
they eat all day, every day.
pecking at everything.

captive bred might be slightly easier…
but i don’t really see much of a difference.

spotted mandis have been the hardest for me

I really have the grail target mandarin. bought as a wild caught specimen from the lfs. I dosed a bunch of pods in the beginning and he was mostly picking off of those. After a week, he started picking at the large chunks of LRS when I would feed the rest of the tank. I also do tdo feedings quite frequently through the day and last week, I caught him picking at TDO pellets. Safe to say my mandarin isn't starving...

Here's my chubby dude

I will say definitely not the norm.

ChiCity · Aug 23, 2023

i’ve got one now,
after many attempts over the years…

but he was tiny when i got him,
and emaciated.

he’s still tiny, and camera shy
but with a plump tummy now…
fingers crossed.

(mine is wild too, target, ruby and psychedelic)

nycfreshreef · Aug 23, 2023

I feed mine live baby brine 4 times most days to supplement pods on a 6 month old reef (sometimes I only get to feed the brine 2-3 times a day , when in between hatching new ones) ye is doing well , was small when I got him but now it his growing (was aquacultured locally)

i cant think · Aug 23, 2023

Anemone_Fanatic said:
They eat a pod every 10 seconds when the lights are on. Watch any video of them in an established tank, and observe the behavior.

So no, they don't eat 4 times a day. They eat 4,000 times a day. They are not fish to be kept in any scenario when you can't feed it as often as possible, or in any tank without at least 50lbs of rock and a good pod population.

I believe a guy calculated around how many a mandarin will eat and how many pods/bbs he puts in through simple maths;

i cant think · Aug 23, 2023

merkmerk73 said:
I'm not convinced every "peck" at the rocks is actually a copepod being eaten.

Pretty sure I've seen mine nipping at nothing

Anyways, a single TDO pellet has probably 100x the nutritional content of a copepod.

Anyone have experience keeping mandarins long term that are fed on frozen and prepared food?

I disagree, heavily. My mandarin luck is out there and mine eats frozen, even then she really doesn’t get the nutrition she needs from the prepared foods. I will always dose pods for her, it’s rare any mandarin will remain on frozen long term (it’s whole life) and generally only feeds on frozen for a couple years before going back to strictly pods. Remember, these guys aren’t feeding on just copepods and are feeding on amphipods and some flatworms as well. So no their nutrition isn’t just based on copepods, it’s based on a multitude of animals.

Lavey29 · Aug 23, 2023

Mine likes beer and chips but dang have you seen the price of beer lately.

Rick's Reviews · Aug 23, 2023

merkmerk73 said:
"Mandarins need to be fed 3-4 times a day or they'll starve!"

Is that true?

Or is it only true based on a diet of mass consumption of low nutrition copepods?

TDO pellets and mysis are much, much more nutritional.

Short digestive system or not - do captive bred, prepared/frozen fed mandarins have the same requirements for success?

Mid cons

merkmerk73 said:
"Mandarins need to be fed 3-4 times a day or they'll starve!"

Is that true?

Or is it only true based on a diet of mass consumption of low nutrition copepods?

TDO pellets and mysis are much, much more nutritional.

Short digestive system or not - do captive bred, prepared/frozen fed mandarins have the same requirements for success?

My mandarin I've had approximately 4 years, it's a spotted mandarin, I researched all about these before I added one.... Long story short, I purposely cycled my aquarium empty to build up pod population.
My mandarin demolished all very quickly, during this time I also tried various foods, live, pellets, frozen, he took a liking to frozen bloodworms, he still eats them along with mysis I feed my sun coral.
I do add live copepods and Artemis requlary.
He's been great for last 4 years.

I think my success was from offering a variety, it has not stopped, I still add various foods just to see what he eats but frozen bloodworms are still his main meal which is his choice.

It don't cost alot to buy various foods to test so I would definitely recommend testing out live, dry, frozen and just test

One thing that stuck in my head from research is mis consecption of mandarin eating, it may appear to be pecking and looks like it's eating, it may not be eat

merkmerk73 said:
"Mandarins need to be fed 3-4 times a day or they'll starve!"

Is that true?

Or is it only true based on a diet of mass consumption of low nutrition copepods?

TDO pellets and mysis are much, much more nutritional.

Short digestive system or not - do captive bred, prepared/frozen fed mandarins have the same requirements for success?

Mid cons

merkmerk73 said:
"Mandarins need to be fed 3-4 times a day or they'll starve!"

Is that true?

Or is it only true based on a diet of mass consumption of low nutrition copepods?

TDO pellets and mysis are much, much more nutritional.

Short digestive system or not - do captive bred, prepared/frozen fed mandarins have the same requirements for success?

My mandarin I've had approximately 4 years, it's a spotted mandarin, I researched all about these before I added one.... Long story short, I purposely cycled my aquarium empty to build up pod population.
My mandarin demolished all very quickly, during this time I also tried various foods, live, pellets, frozen, he took a liking to frozen bloodworms, he still eats them along with mysis I feed my sun coral.
I do add live copepods and Artemis requlary.
He's been great for last 4 years.

I think my success was from offering a variety, it has not stopped, I still add various foods just to see what he eats but frozen bloodworms are still his main meal which is his choice.

It don't cost alot to buy various foods to test so I would definitely recommend testing out live, dry, frozen and just test