Is conventional wisdom about Mandarins wrong?

[Kasrift]

"Mandarins need to be fed 3-4 times a day or they'll starve!"

Is that true?

Or is it only true based on a diet of mass consumption of low nutrition copepods?

TDO pellets and mysis are much, much more nutritional.

Short digestive system or not - do captive bred, prepared/frozen fed mandarins have the same requirements for success?

It's been stated below, but they eat constantly. Think of them as the hummingbirds of the fish tank, they constantly "hover" and flap their fins and need nutritional intake constantly to cover their metabolism.

 

[areefer01]

"Mandarins need to be fed 3-4 times a day or they'll starve!"

Is that true?

Or is it only true based on a diet of mass consumption of low nutrition copepods?

TDO pellets and mysis are much, much more nutritional.

Short digestive system or not - do captive bred, prepared/frozen fed mandarins have the same requirements for success?

It depends if you are a conscientious aquarist or just shopping for answers.

I keep pink square anthias among some other fish and feed pellet hourly starting at 0830 until 1830. I feed a frozen blend just before lights out. I rotate through LRS Fish, LRS Reef, Mysis, Brine, PE Calanus, Plankton, and Prime Reef. Oh, oyster eggs also.

When I introduce new fish that are captive bred/raised I increase frozen feeding to 3 times a day. The hobbyist has to understand the conditioning of the animal and its habits. Then try and provide for it. Foraging fish like Mandarins or a Six Line or similar means we need to provide enough to keep it occupied even if it is eating prepared food. It helps if you have to leave for a trip or emergency.

Also another thing is food competition. Mandarin and Six Line probably overlap with food and foraging. Population of food will go quicker. Thus my comment about the conscientious aquarist.

All the best.

 

[Alexraptor]

The diet of a Mandarin Dragonet is a bit more complex than just "thousands of pods" a day.

It's easy to culture and seed a tank with copepods, but they will also eat small worms, snails, fish eggs and even amphipods and ostracods. Truth is they eat heck of a lot more in our systems than most people realize.

I kept a female mandarin dragonet in breeding health for a whole year in a 10-gallon tank, before upgrading to a 25, by just once a day feedings with frozen lobster eggs. The leftover nutrients and macroalgae took care of the rest, and there was never a snowballs chance in hell that she could "clean out" even that system.

 

[merkmerk73]

I disagree, heavily. My mandarin luck is out there and mine eats frozen, even then she really doesn’t get the nutrition she needs from the prepared foods. I will always dose pods for her, it’s rare any mandarin will remain on frozen long term (it’s whole life) and generally only feeds on frozen for a couple years before going back to strictly pods. Remember, these guys aren’t feeding on just copepods and are feeding on amphipods and some flatworms as well. So no their nutrition isn’t just based on copepods, it’s based on a multitude of animals.

I think your mandarins are "only feeding on frozen for a couple years" because you're offering them a lot of live options

This is something you have to be careful with anytime feeding finnicky eaters live foods - like Copperbands.

You don't want to train them off eating prepared foods. (frozen or otherwise)

 

[duckman]

I have to agree with everyone's input so far. Mandarin forages slowly and all day long.

I am actually experimenting with a pico tank just for mandarin. I have a captive bred mandarin in it which was literally peanut size when I got it. It does eat prepared food (liquid pacpods from reefnutrition and TDO pellets) but I can't see how it could compete with other fish if I had any other fish in there. I started the tank as an insta-tank with dry rock and Fritz turbostart 900. Fish went in day #2 after I filled the tank and I feed twice a day with the pacpods via a doser. Its about twice the size now 3 months later. I do supplement with cultured tigger pods and the tank has a 3d printed pod hotel. Bottom line it could be fed with twice a day feeding when small and it doesn't necessarily need a pod population if captive bred and the only fish in tank. If other fish are in tank, it probably needs a dedicated feeder like the one PaulB designed. Of course, it won't hurt if you have a health pod population.

 

[smootie]

"Mandarins need to be fed 3-4 times a day or they'll starve!"
do captive bred, prepared/frozen fed mandarins have the same requirements for success?

I don't think any rigorous studies have been done, and the people who can definitively answer this question (those who have experience with raising enough gobies to have a scientifically significant result, like Biota) are unlikely to give up their findings.

Like with every hobby, following the conventional wisdom probably increases your chance of success, but also like in every hobby your mileage may vary and people's experiences span the spectrum from organic-gluten-free-copepods-4-life through I-feed-my-mandarin-table-scraps-fight-me.

I've only ever had two mandarins, both wild-caught. One (a green one) had to be trained to eat frozen, which took a couple days but after that he was good. He was fat and happy for several years, but I lost track if him after I rehomed him due to a long distance move. My current mandarin is spotted and ate frozen the first time I fed her (after eying the food suspiciously for a minute). I only got her last winter so I don't know how she will turn out long-term, but she's chubby and greedily inhales her food along with everyone else in the tank when they get their once-daily feeding.

 

[ninjamyst]

I have a 200g tank and still won't get a mandarin because of the amount of wrasse and other fish I have that decimates all the pods in my display tank. Even if the mandarin eats frozen and I feed 3-4 times a day, the other fish and cuc will quickly get all the prepared food before the mandarin. So it's not only about the amount of live rock but also the existing fish you have.

 

[Doctorgori]

every mandarin I’ve owned ate frozen mysis , yes EVERY ..I think LOL … (over 10-ish?)
…one even learned to eat out of the seahorse dish and wait for food at feeding time
…. OTOH they were also in very established tanks …
So while I want to say you can raise them exclusively on prepared foods, I can’t

 

[jackson6745]

It’s pretty easy to get them on live black worms if you have then available.

 

[i cant think]

I think your mandarins are "only feeding on frozen for a couple years" because you're offering them a lot of live options

This is something you have to be careful with anytime feeding finnicky eaters live foods - like Copperbands.

You don't want to train them off eating prepared foods. (frozen or otherwise)

I wish this was true, I only really dose pods. The rest of my live food sources are minimal.

As for my 4’ tank I have a ‘finicky’ Copperband and a ‘finicky’ Regal Angel among other ‘finicky’ fish. They have their natural food sources constantly kept ontop of and yet they thrive on frozen 2x a day. My mandarin only gets frozen once a day as again, I never trust a mandarin to rely on frozen. I’ve witnessed them revert even in an LFS environment and Copper is often used which generally wipes out all invert populations.

 

[Cole_Voeller]

I’m aware it’s blasphemy, but do to strict changes at my college apartment, I had to downgrade my Biota dragonet into a 10 gallon aquarium (trust me, I’m trying to get him into a larger tank haha.) Obviously a pod population would get absolutely destroyed in a tank that small fairly quickly. I add a bag of pods every once in a while so he has something to hunt. However his main source of feeding is pellets. I’ve had him for over a year and he had done phenomenally well. He has learned that when I turn the pumps off in his tank it is feeding time, so he swims to the highest point of rock in the tank where it is easiest to give him pellets. His belly is always full, and even with such a small pod population there are days where he doesn’t even eat very many pellets.
I absolutely believe that a wild caught dragonet requires a large aquarium with a massive pod population, but aqua-cultured mandarins who will eat pellets and other prepared foods can certainly be kept in smaller tanks with smaller pod populations, as long as you are diligent in target feeding them specifically, rather than just throwing pellets into their tank. Though I will definitely recommend a tank bigger than mine of course.

 

[Blackstar]

I've got a spotted mandarin, had him about 5 years & he eats absolutely anything & everything I put in the tank including flake, pellets & algae, he is first one out at feed time & is hand tame

 

[saltyhog]

Serious question for those of you who have mandarins that eat prepared foods. How the heck do you get the food to the mandarin? Mine only eats from the rock, never the water column and in my tank full of wrasses, tangs, gobys, hawkfish, and basslets there is never a morsel of food that makes it's way out of the water column before it's eaten. Mandarins are such slow, deliberate feeders how is it practical to feed them prepared foods?

Fortunately I have a large and mature tank with lots of pods.

 

[hunterallen40]

This is my pair. Wouldn't even stop eating for a photo!

They also eat my frozen food, but definitely prefer live pods.

I've actually never heard the 4x daily rule before. I don't think that's how their metabolism works, honestly. They don't stop eating while they are awake.

 

[Jay'sReefBugs]

They are mandarins no matter captive or wild their instincts are to hunt 24/7. I'm not sure these fish ever stop. Obviously if you can get captive that's on prepared food that's great but it's also good for them to be able to do what they do best hunt ! The big issue is probably well over 90% of mandarins at LFS are wild ! Which is understandable from a sales aspect as they are a 3rd of the cost for stores then captive . I have a breeding pair ( wild ) in my 75 that eat just about anything that moves including bristle worms . keeping an active pod population isn't really difficult at all . The key is phyto dosing your population is only as big as the food source .

 

[Cole_Voeller]

Serious question for those of you who have mandarins that eat prepared foods. How the heck do you get the food to the mandarin? Mine only eats from the rock, never the water column and in my tank full of wrasses, tangs, gobys, hawkfish, and basslets there is never a morsel of food that makes it's way out of the water column before it's eaten. Mandarins are such slow, deliberate feeders how is it practical to feed them prepared foods?

Fortunately I have a large and mature tank with lots of pods.

That’s essentially how I feed mine, just off the rock. I feed the others on the other side of the tank while I feed my dragonet at the same time, just to let him keep all his food to himself.

 

[Roatan Reef]

I dont have a mandarin, but a scooter...1st things 1st, one should never go in a tank less than 1 to 1.5 years old. You need an established tank with pods.

I tried a scooter at the 6 month mark...we all loved him, but he was not long for this world. Mandarin/Scooters should always be at tank bottom, rocks or sides of tank...when you see them not scooting, and floating up to tank tops, that will tell you...they are hungry and not enough to eat.

Got a scooter 1 month ago, so far so good...he never travels to top, scoots on sand and rocks only...always pecking at sand/rocks 4000 times/day ..has not lost weight, and is doing good so far.

He has recently found interest in Ocean Prime Flakes also.

 

[i cant think]

This is my pair. Wouldn't even stop eating for a photo!

They also eat my frozen food, but definitely prefer live pods.

I've actually never heard the 4x daily rule before. I don't think that's how their metabolism works, honestly. They don't stop eating while they are awake.

My question is… when are they even asleep?!
I see mine in her ‘sleeping’ colours but she’s wandering around the tank even then. And in the day, she’s back to normal colours but again sat wandering around the tank.

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

I dont have a mandarin, but a scooter...1st things 1st, one should never go in a tank less than 1 to 1.5 years old. You need an established tank with pods.

I tried a scooter at the 6 month mark...we all loved him, but he was not long for this world. Mandarin/Scooters should always be at tank bottom, rocks or sides of tank...when you see them not scooting, and floating up to tank tops, that will tell you...they are hungry and not enough to eat.

Got a scooter 1 month ago, so far so good...he never travels to top, scoots on sand and rocks only...always pecking at sand/rocks 4000 times/day ..has not lost weight, and is doing good so far.

He has recently found interest in Ocean Prime Flakes also.

This is generally good advice, but not an absolute. I just fed a bunch of filter feeding foods and if I felt low on pods I would get a rock infested with them at the LFS, also fuge is probably absolutely necessary before at least a year.

My mandarin went in at month 2, but was absolutely focused on just being able to keep a mandarin.

Edit: its probably not a good idea to give new hobbyists its a good idea to try putting one in a non established tank. I went all out on researching the species of pods and how to get their population to explode, threw in algae wafers, let my nuisance algaes grow out of control, tons of things that would easily make the hobby hell for most starting out, that I had to put a lot of work into preparing combating the problems that come with treating a new tank in this way. Let alone i am sure there was luck involved as I have seen others fail that I think might have also taken my approach. Also my mandarin still won't eat anything other than live foods as far as I can tell, and its been a year.

 

[Rocky Mountain Reef]

I have male and female blue/green mandarins, a spotted mandarin and a red scooter dragonette....they are all fat and always pecking. I have a 210G tank with lot's of rock, so they have room to roam. I add Dinkins copepods monthly, phytoplankton daily and just added amphipods to the refugium. My guess is they all peck the rocks for dried food (TDO and Spectrum pellets, plus calanus) that gets lodged in it as well as daily frozen food mix (my own blend plus LRS fish frenzy). I can only imagine they benefit from a wholistic system with many options to feed constantly on all these goodies.