Is Ecotech ever going to make a controller?

robbyg · Nov 21, 2019

I really like their products but I already have most of them already and the only company I might ever consider ditching my controller for is an Ecotech. That is based on their ability to deliver inovative quality products. It would seem to me that something new in the product lineup like a controller would be a huge money maker for the company, since most of your other products have already saturated the market in the other areas.

AZMSGT · Nov 21, 2019

You mean this?

Mobius, Ecotech Marine’s New Control Platform Goes into Beta Testing | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Mobius is a brand new control platform that Ecotech Marine has been hard at work building for several years, and now it’s in the final phases of testing. Ecotech has been using very capable microchips…

reefbuilders.com

It’s been in work for a while.

robbyg · Nov 22, 2019

Ahh it sounds like another pump and light controller. I was really hoping they would build something like the Apex or Aquatronica or GHL controller. We can already use any of those three and control Vortechs and Radions. We cannot control the Vectra pump but they are not really all that popular and even if they were I really dont see myslef messing with my main pump speed all that often other than on/off which I can do with any controller. Thanks for the info. I was really hoping for something more spectacular.

AZMSGT · Nov 22, 2019

Lets just say other things are coming. They already announced the new dosing pump. They have to start some place.

I’m pretty certain you will see a component that has all the sensor probes.

basically they are decentralizing things. Making it all controllable in an app.

justingraham · Nov 22, 2019

Yea making it easier to get out of the controller you already own....

And I can’t wait

joshwaggs · Jul 24, 2020

AZMSGT said:
Lets just say other things are coming. They already announced the new dosing pump. They have to start some place.

I’m pretty certain you will see a component that has all the sensor probes.

basically they are decentralizing things. Making it all controllable in an app.

Where is it
I want one

TheHarold · Jul 24, 2020

I hope they take it slow and take their time to refine the app & hardware.

robbyg · Jul 24, 2020

TheHarold said:
I hope they take it slow and take their time to refine the app & hardware.

The app is easy in comparison. Designing the hardware is not all that hard but it's making the firmware to run on that hardware that is going to be the real issue. If the firmware is anything less than 100% perfect in it's core functions, they will encounter a lot of negative posts. I am pretty sure that whatever ecotech is building it is probably already in Alpha testing stages. The Beta test could take an additional year to complete.

Reefcowboy · Jul 24, 2020

Go on, it's easy Ecotech
-Vertex

robbyg · Jul 24, 2020

Reefcowboy said:
Go on, it's easy Ecotech
-Vertex

Ecotech does have two major advantage over Vertex. They already have a lot of the hardware to make a viable system and they have an established engineering team. All they need is the controller and Power bars. The power bars are easy and the controller itself could even be a simple raspberry pi style board running Linux. That combo would be super reliable and five times faster than an Apex. The major problem is writing RELIABLE software that will make all of this work together.

Letterkenny · Jul 25, 2020

It should be fairly simple to make one at this point. You can get a smart controlled outlet for $30-40 from amazon which would close that side. I would just want them to come out with a trident competitor.

TheHarold · Jul 25, 2020

Letterkenny said:
It should be fairly simple to make one at this point. You can get a smart controlled outlet for $30-40 from amazon which would close that side. I would just want them to come out with a trident competitor.

Not neccesarily simple. Wifi outlets.... aren't necessary as reliable as you would want for critical life support of the aquarium. You would need user-set fallback states for when it inevitably loses connection (you don't want a heater stuck ON, or a return pump stuck OFF), etc.

This is even more difficult given there may not be a local "brain" controller that can keep programming locally and make the outlets continue to function without internet. For example if there is a Ecotech "Sensor module", and the wifi goes out, the heater outlet will have no data to work off. Same thing with devices like calcium reactors, etc.

To compete with apex, you would also want power monitoring on each outlet to know how much power the device is consuming (to detect failures), etc.

Letterkenny · Jul 25, 2020

TheHarold said:
Not neccesarily simple. Wifi outlets.... aren't necessary as reliable as you would want for critical life support of the aquarium. You would need user-set fallback states for when it inevitably loses connection (you don't want a heater stuck ON, or a return pump stuck OFF), etc.

This is even more difficult given there may not be a local "brain" controller that can keep programming locally and make the outlets continue to function without internet. For example if there is a Ecotech "Sensor module", and the wifi goes out, the heater outlet will have no data to work off. Same thing with devices like calcium reactors, etc.

To compete with apex, you would also want power monitoring on each outlet to know how much power the device is consuming (to detect failures), etc.

I disagree. It’s actually quite basic coding to get there and doesn’t take much coding to do basic fallback on these devices (returning to the previous state). The semi more complicated item would be adding in sensors but still very basic. Hire a couple contractors or find a company to do the coding and it shouldn’t take too long or be much effort.

robbyg · Jul 25, 2020

Letterkenny said:
I disagree. It’s actually quite basic coding to get there and doesn’t take much coding to do basic fallback on these devices (returning to the previous state). The semi more complicated item would be adding in sensors but still very basic. Hire a couple contractors or find a company to do the coding and it shouldn’t take too long or be much effort.

I kind of agree and disagree with both of you

Wireless is not a good route for a controller. This has been proven time and time again.
WiFi disconnects multiple times per day and interference can also be an issue. As for Bluetooth, that's 10 times worst! Fallback coding is good for helping with some things but not all that useful for others. Eg. is the heater plug left On or Off?

I agree with you about sensor modules, it's not to hard to make the basics like pH, ORP, Temp or Leak and that is pretty much all they need to have at the launch of the product. More complicated things like Salinity, Flow and Oxygen can come later.
Power monitoring is a nice feature but I don't think its a must have item but I do think that a central brain is a must have item if there is going to be any real complex coordination between the devices. My thinking is that ETM might be playing with the idea of skipping that part and using wireless power bars and an App to run them all. This would be a mistake IMHO.

Letterkenny · Jul 25, 2020

Overall, I feel like the reef industry is far behind where we could be with controllers. Granted, a part of this is volume to support R&D costs but I think we should be able to do more with our controllers. Additionally, there are other wireless standards that are fine as well, such as zwave.

JoshH · Jul 25, 2020

I seriously hope Ecotech takes there time if they do indeed intend to roll out a controller, with all the Mobius hiccups I would hate to see a controller come out with even 1/10th of the issues Mobius has.

robbyg · Jul 25, 2020

Letterkenny said:
Overall, I feel like the reef industry is far behind where we could be with controllers. Granted, a part of this is volume to support R&D costs but I think we should be able to do more with our controllers. Additionally, there are other wireless standards that are fine as well, such as zwave.

I agree, IMHO we are about 10-15 years behind. Aquatronica still sells that ACQ-115 and I owned one of those back in 2005. It pretty much does everything the Apex gold, ACQ-140 and Profilux 4 does. Once hooked up to it's web interface you would be hard pressed to find a missing feature.
Whats happening today is caused by a lack of serious competition which was not due to a case of the best controller wins or lack of innovation by the others. A lot more happened to cause everyone else to throw in the towel or just stay on their side of the world.

Reefcowboy · Jul 25, 2020

Honestly controllers are overrated. I own an apex with everything I need and with the alk, Ca, Mg, No3(?) And PO monitors there isnt much more that we need.
We dont need them to be fast, as they send emails, txt, shut down pumps, heaters, lights. I like tech but dont think there is much more to be done from now on.
As far as Ecotech, I speak as a user of their products and a user of a controller company that has been in the hobby the longest: reliability takes time, testing and experience in this type of market.

Ecotech has been having a tough time with its G5s just look at forums and notice lots of unhappy people. G4s were the bomb, I have 4 units myself.

Some here think you gather a bunch of engineers and spare parts and boom, we have a reliable controller. It doesnt work like that.

What happened to the Tunze controller? Does Tunze have engineers and resources?

The controllers debate is fun and I would welcome a new controller from Ecotech, but would love to read comments that are realistic and not so much based on brand loyalty.
No pun intended at anyone. Peace!

Letterkenny · Jul 25, 2020

Reefcowboy said:
Honestly controllers are overrated. I own an apex with everything I need and with the alk, Ca, Mg, No3(?) And PO monitors there isnt much more that we need.
We dont need them to be fast, as they send emails, txt, shut down pumps, heaters, lights. I like tech but dont think there is much more to be done from now on.
As far as Ecotech, I speak as a user of their products and a user of a controller company that has been in the hobby the longest: reliability takes time, testing and experience in this type of market.

Ecotech has been having a tough time with its G5s just look at forums and notice lots of unhappy people. G4s were the bomb, I have 4 units myself.

Some here think you gather a bunch of engineers and spare parts and boom, we have a reliable controller. It doesnt work like that.

What happened to the Tunze controller? Does Tunze have engineers and resources?

The controllers debate is fun and I would welcome a new controller from Ecotech, but would love to read comments that are realistic and not so much based on brand loyalty.
No pun intended at anyone. Peace!

Problem is we don’t have a No3 or PO4 automatic tester yet. Might have No3 with the GHL Ion director coming but that’s all.