Is fish keeping ethical?

I tend to think most people in this hobby are ethical. We do our best to create quality living conditions for the fish we keep, and while I agree there's definitely a line, I think most of habitats we seek to provide are to the benefit of the animals being kept there.
 
Can't watch the video at work so I'm about to do the worst thing possible and give my opinion on a topic I didn't read the full article to.

Fish keeping is not ethical. We're all on here trying to justify it, but it's really not. I know we all try to do things to make it more ethical (I only buy captive bred species), but at the end of the day it just isn't.
 
Who's to say really? In order to determine if fish-keeping is ethical, we must first define what 'ethical' really means... It appears that most people here believe that we want our fish to live in peace and for as long as possible... but is that really living?

Yes, the fish in our tanks do not have to be concerned about predators, pollution, and other 'natural' occurrences that might cause it harm. However, that same fish does not have the same choices it might have in the wild... it cannot decide to check out a different part of the reef. It cannot look for a mate. It cannot get away from a bully neighbor.

Are we defining 'ethical' based on the lifespan of the critter? How long will that fish or coral live in the wild? It could be eaten this afternoon by a bigger predator. It could get swept out to deep water by a rogue wave. It could make a poor choice and get trapped somewhere in the web of corals. But in each instance it got in these situations on it's own freewill.

That doesn't happen in our tanks. If we believe that a long life free of worry is more important than freewill, then yes - one can argue fish-keeping is ethical. However, who made us ruler of the seas? How is it that we get to determine if/how and for how-long a critter gets to live?

That tang we put in our tank might not have to worry about being eaten, but don't the predators deserve some food too? Doesn't the reef itself need tangs to help clear out the algae?

But then again - who's to say that the single fish we removed from the reef will not be replaced by another that didn't have enough food - or a fish that was able to escape predation because there is more room to swim?

I think this 'ethical' debate is another way us humans try to justify our actions and we try to simplify the world to fit our 'model' of how we think it works. In the end, I believe that no matter what we do, we have an impact on these critter's lives. Even if we don't keep them in glass bowls, our actions in our daily lives still impacts the oceans. Therefore, the few fish we keep in safe bubbles are still living better than many of their counterparts. I also believe that we learn invaluable lessons by keeping these critters and by observing their needs we can alter our behavior so that we might be able to have less of an impact on their 'wild' brethren in the future.
 
Which is more ethical, eating fish or keeping them in our aquariums? Hmmm.
This. So much, this.

I assume the OP is a vegan who avoids walking on the grass so as not to harm any living thing. Not all of us are. For those of us who eat fish, it may seem a rather nonsensical question to ask whether its unethical to put an animal in a cage, but ethical to kill and eat it.

I respect the hard core vegans who avoid taking any animal life, but they also need to recognize they are a minority position in the range of human thinking on ethics.
 
Generalizing fish keeping as unethical isn't very accurate. Sure, putting a panther grouper in a nuvo 20 would be unethical. However keeping a pair of neon gobies in that same tank would probably be close to paradise for those gobies.

I strive to have all of my fish breeding. A spawning fish isn't just surviving, it's thriving.
 
It’s a matter of opinion of course. It can be unethical and ethical, depends on the circumstance. Personally, I wouldn’t keep a fish unless it was captive bred. I don’t eat fish either. That’s just me!

Y’all stop comparing fish to dogs. Dogs are domesticated.
 
Well done @Prestigereef . I really like to see this topic brought up for discussion. With regards `ethics` I really think that is a discussion for philosophers. I find it a word far to widely used and abused. Personally I think the alternative word `sustainable` is one we should all be discussing and exploring within the hobby.

I watched the video and was both impressed and informed. Thanks for sharing.

Sustainability is an aspect of the hobby I concentrate on very heavily. rather than scoring `Ethical` brownie points and giving myself a pat on the back. I believe that sustainability is the single most significant factor in the long term future of our great hobby. By definition , if something is not sustainable, it will eventually end.

Although I spend time raising awareness and support for aquaculture of Marine Ornamentals. I also see equal value in supporting many other aspects of the trade including sustainable practices in wild capture and collection.

Now comes the rub. I am not so convinced in the economic argument though. I often hear the argument that employing indigenous peoples within the collection trade empowers them in a way that will actively increase their conservation of the resource. If that was the case why do they get paid such a pittance for their often dangerous labour. You could equally argue that the same economic driver could possibly create an environment where sustainable practices were short changed to meet quotas. If ones driving force is simply economical then why be held back by restraints. Poor communities very rarely think about long term investment. They struggle just to stay afloat.

If that was not contentiouse enough to create a debate. What about the price we pay for these wonderful animals. When you factor in the work collecting processing and transporting the live animals. I find it quite astonishing how little we are prepared to pay for them. Maybe this is a driving force that creates an apparent throw away culture within some parts of the hobby.

I believe price and linked investment is a crucial part of sustainability. If we were prepared to pay more for our animals, then more could be invested in environmental and conservation projects, training and education.

I am continuously frustrated by my attempts to increase the availability of captive bred species here in the UK, coming up against seemingly unassailable obstacles such as wholesale `sole trader` contracts between the USA and Europe. I have lost count at the number of times I have begged and harassed breeders in the USA to ship to the UK. When UK independent importers are able to miraculously secure a shipment of Captive Bred stock, such as that from Biota to EcoMarines. They are met with a response of hobbyists "how much ? No thanks I will wait till the price comes down". The same hobbyists would think nothing of spending hundreds of pounds on a bit of kit mainly because of its esthetics. But when it comes to the very centre of any aquarium, the animals, they want everything on the cheap.

When a manufacturer decides on a RRP. for their product, one important factor is brand value. If you sell to cheap it may de value the brand. Well what are we doing with the animals by selling them so relatively cheap. We are devaluing the animal itself.

I also think we as hobbyists should engage more with other parties involved in the marine environment. We need to work with conservationists not against one another. I know first hand how frustrating this can be. Participating in both arenas I am often the target of abuse. But that is no reason to draw a line and build walls. We must work together to create a more sustainable future for the environment. After all without it we all loose.

Enough ranting by me, :) Hopefully some of my comments will help sustain the debate. positive and negative comments welcome equally. I will be glad just to see the awareness of sustainability in our hobby discussed

As a side note. I seen one of my idols, @chad vossen comments on here. One of my all time heroes of sustainability especially with regards aquaculture. Please spare a thought for us over the other side of the pond please Chad. I would love to see some of your prodigy make their way over here.

Lets all work towards a sustainable hobby. Best wishes from over the pond.
 
I am a vegetarian (for almost 20 years) and I still think of animals as expendable. It is the way I was raised, the American way really. I grew up in rural dairy country and everyone it seemed hunted and fished. Now before you get all uppity, by expendable I mean many animals are a resource. They certainly have value and are bought, sold, milked and slaughtered.

Pets are certainly different. We keep them for the express purpose of sharing our lives with them. They also have value too, but more as loved ones than resources. What boggles my mind is how we separate the two. Resource vs. pet. It really is completely arbitrary and rather cultural. In some countries, dogs are a delicacy. In others, cows are sacred. Who are any of us to say which is "right?"

My point is that there is no right answer. In my experience on this site, I am not too worried overall because I all see here is love for marine life. The better question is how any culture treats their fellow humans. Let us take care of that first before we get too bent out of shape about the treatment of individual animals.
 
One of the moderators suggested I share some of my old videos with you all...

This is a good place to start... is fishkeeping ethical?

I fail to see the point of this discussion when there are fishing ships that catch and process more fish in one net haul in weight than possibly all the aquarium kept Fish in the entire world. Where is the concern for those fish and who has stopped eating fish sandwiches or fish sticks?
 
Is Fish Keeping Ethical?

First off we need to define what Ethics is?

Can I be arrested for being unethical? No

Something is either legal or illegal, their is no middle ground. Ethics is a state of mind.

If I chose to keep fish and corals then it is my responsibility to properly care for them, that said if I want to treat the creatures under my care poorly then who will stop me? What jurisdiction will attempt to prosecute me? It simply is not going to happen.

In many Asian countries domestic dogs and cats are on the menu at many restaurants, in their society that is acceptable, yet in the western world that would be considered a terrible crime. I have watched first hand in several middle-eastern countries the sale of daughters on their 14th birthday for as little a 6 goats, which is and has been considered normal for over 3,000 years.

Legal, illegal, ethical or unethical all depends on where you are standing at the moment and at what moment in time.

Before anyone anywhere accuses someone of unethical anything they first need to define what is ethics otherwise it is simply a misused word of no real value.
 
When I was in college, my roommate kept Oscars. We used to say that he had 28 gallons of Oscar and 2 gallons of water. Really outrageous ...... until late on a Saturday night after a few 'beers' ...... then it just seemed really funny.
 
I think I can speak for most, we strive to keep our fish and corals in good health and keep them for their full life spans. Some of us do better jobs then others.
Isn't this why we all conjugate here on Reef2Reef and have an enriched community spanning the novice reefkeepers to experts.... I have been keeping reef tanks since 2006 and the technology at this point, has come so far.... Information that is at our disposal makes for the best possible conditions and long term health of aquarium live stock keep getting better and better.

So no, I don't think we are doing something wrong, we are doing it right!!
 
I eat burgers, buffalo wings, and sushi ... and thoroughly enjoy it. So who am I to judge if keeping fish in my tank is ethical. That said, I do research on ALL denizens of my little saltwater kingdom before I add them. And try to make it as natural and comfortable of a home as I can. That said, they are just fish.

Will I put a full-grown emperor angel in a 25g tank? No. That would be cruel and unethical.

Will I break into tears of one of my fish goes carpet surfing (only happened once so far)? No ... just as I don't shed tears for the ants I no doubt step on when I walk my dog. It may not be intentional but it happens. That's life. Sometime we humans can be brutally unethical ... and, IMHO, at others we can also tend to get a little too high on our horse.
 
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I could come up w the 6 Goats if the opportunity presented itself.

7 Goats even , ... IF really good lookin.



Stupid joke, sorry.

I believe we need to be good "stewards" of ALL our resources, certainly including all Creations Animals.

All Life is precious.

I find a Moth in the house, usually try to bring it outside.

I will admit though, I did eat Chicken two nights ago, beef last night.

Oh !... and Shrimp last week !

Marc
 
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In other words, is fish keeping the right thing to do?

That depends on who is defining what right is; It is an individual decision and there will never be a universal answer.
 
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IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

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