Is growing algae for nutrient export a bad idea?

[robert]

In another thread...an idea was floated that nutrient levels were not as important as what establishes its footing first....coral or algae. I think this is actually a pretty good thought.

Are we making a mistake using macro-algae for nutrient export? Are we actually predisposing out systems to algae in the process?

I think its an idea with some merit...what do you think?

 

[Wiz]

I have a 40b well stocked with mixed coral and fish. I had a 12x12 fuge in the 20 gal sump. While I was able to keep nitrate low, my phosphates were kinda high. Kept getting nuisance algae. Bubble, bryopsis, hair and a bright green filament algae on rocks and iritating corals.
I got a dual reactor to run gfo. It brought the phos down and held it pretty low. Much less algae. But still some.
I installed a 30g dsb fuge and stocked it with a variety of macro. After about a month the alges all but stopped. A bubble every week or two and a small patch of hair on my sump baffle. I took out the gfo reactor about a month and a half ago. Maybe a bit longer. Phos don't even register now. Macros are growing like crazy. And look nice too. Corals are awsome.
In short, I think it requires a lot of macro to keep levels down. But natural export is the only way for me. Noy too mention the pod population. :-D

 

[Wiz]

And all I run is a skimmer. And a bag of carbon in the baffles. Nothing else

 

[smh254]

I think it all depends on the tank. I'm having a problem keeping my nutrients level up and it might be because of the chaeto I have growing. My po3 are at 4 (dosing no3) and po4 are at 0. I have pulled gfo stopes skimming to give my SPS corals the nutrients they need. My next step is to remove the chaeto

 

[shiftline]

I think you need a lot and a bug fudge to put a dent in it. I don't believe the tiny fudges most of us have provide any real value other than a place for pods to hang out

 

[Pete polyp]

I have a 40b well stocked with mixed coral and fish. I had a 12x12 fuge in the 20 gal sump. While I was able to keep nitrate low, my phosphates were kinda high. Kept getting nuisance algae. Bubble, bryopsis, hair and a bright green filament algae on rocks and iritating corals.
I got a dual reactor to run gfo. It brought the phos down and held it pretty low. Much less algae. But still some.
I installed a 30g dsb fuge and stocked it with a variety of macro. After about a month the alges all but stopped. A bubble every week or two and a small patch of hair on my sump baffle. I took out the gfo reactor about a month and a half ago. Maybe a bit longer. Phos don't even register now. Macros are growing like crazy. And look nice too. Corals are awsome.
In short, I think it requires a lot of macro to keep levels down. But natural export is the only way for me. Noy too mention the pod population. :-D

Im seriously considering pulling the baffles out of my 40b sump and doing this. Except the dsb... I don't need any no3 reduction

 

[Pete polyp]

I think it all depends on the tank. I'm having a problem keeping my nutrients level up and it might be because of the chaeto I have growing. My po3 are at 4 (dosing no3) and po4 are at 0. I have pulled gfo stopes skimming to give my SPS corals the nutrients they need. My next step is to remove the chaeto

It very well might be the issue. The large amount of Po4 would definitely make the macroalgae want to slurp up any available nitrate and grow. I would get the Po4 under control and see what happens before you ditch the macroalgae.

 

[Pete polyp]

I think it all depends on the tank. I'm having a problem keeping my nutrients level up and it might be because of the chaeto I have growing. My po3 are at 4 (dosing no3) and po4 are at 0. I have pulled gfo stopes skimming to give my SPS corals the nutrients they need. My next step is to remove the chaeto

It very well might be the issue. The large amount of Po4 would definitely make the macroalgae want to slurp up any available nitrate and grow. I would get the Po4 under control and see what happens before you ditch the macroalgae.

 

[NanaReefer]

My chaeto grows like crazy in my 12x13" fuge. My DT is nuisance algae free, completely. I run a sock. A reactor filled with carbon/purigen (SeaGel) Works for me [emoji2]

 

[Pete polyp]

My tank consumes cheato unless I dose nitrate lol

 

[smh254]

It very well might be the issue. The large amount of Po4 would definitely make the macroalgae want to slurp up any available nitrate and grow. I would get the Po4 under control and see what happens before you ditch the macroalgae.

The problem is My po3 is at 0 and po4 is .00 this is y I dose po3 to try to give my SPS some nutrients they need. Might try to remove my chaeto so I don't have to does po3.

 

[Pete polyp]

I think it all depends on the tank. I'm having a problem keeping my nutrients level up and it might be because of the chaeto I have growing. My po3 are at 4 (dosing no3) and po4 are at 0. I have pulled gfo stopes skimming to give my SPS corals the nutrients they need. My next step is to remove the chaeto

Oh ok. .. I misunderstood because there's a typo in your first post

 

[Pete polyp]

The problem is My po3 is at 0 and po4 is .00 this is y I dose po3 to try to give my SPS some nutrients they need. Might try to remove my chaeto so I don't have to does po3.

Maybe try putting the drain line of your skimmer back into the sump

 

[smh254]

That's an old pic I don't run my skimmer any more.

 

[Pete polyp]

That's an old pic I don't run my skimmer any more.

Oh ok. There's a trend of people wanting to dose nitrates right now while running an oversized skimmer and feeding minimal. You probably have the same problem I do.... nothing I could do would bring nitrates up to even detectable levels. I was feeding an entire 6oz flat pack of frozen food to my 40 gallon a month and all it did was drive phosphates up. Even with all that food my tank was consuming cheato. A ball would last about 2 months before it withered away into nothing.

 

[smh254]

I think my problem is that my chaeto is using up all the nutrients in my tank. My chaeto does grow. Still po3 and po4 were at 0 I started dosing po3. Now everything is doing grate.

 

[robert]

So it seems that some/many are having difficulty keeping their nutrients levels up. Is this because your corals are growing so fast that they consume all the nutrients or is it the chaeto consuming all the nutrients?

If its because the corals are growing great - then why worry about it? Why the desire to supplement nutrients? Is it that your thinking that maybe with more nutrients the corals would grow even faster?

I suspect that maybe the maro-algaes are not helping your corals to grow. Some like wiz has some nice macros and likes them and thats cool, his corals look good too - but hes running GFO to keep algae in check in his tank.

It seems like a dual edged sword - use maros to consume nutrients to halt algae but in doing so stunt coral growth and then introduce nutrients to stimulate coral growth...

On the reef and in our tanks - corals and macro algaes are competitors - they fight continously for space and dominance. We use chaeto because we think we need low levels on N and P and we can control chaeto better than other macoalgaes - the idea being that if we grow chaeto in our sumps we can keep other nuisence algaes out of our displays through starvation.

Problem is chaeto wants to eat the same stuff the zoanthelle want to eat and thats the same stuff the bad algaes want to eat.

As reefers we think we manipulate the balance - and we are successful to a certain extent, but what you may not be aware of is that macroalgaes cheat - they use chemical and biologic weapons to wage their war on corals. They don't even have to touch your corals to kill them - they produce food for bacterial strains which do their work for them...if this has been demonstrated on the open reef - what do you think might be taking place in the confined space of your tank?

I ditched the chaeto - my nitrates are high - very high - and corals don't seem to mind. I don't run GFO and I don't test for phosphate - everythinng is doing fine - I don't skim - I have very little algae - 40 trocus take care of a 400 gallon tank. Maybe I'm living in a fools paradise and I'll be crying on the forums tomorrow...its the nature of the hobby.

Two takeaways -
1. corals grow faster with more nutrients. (I know there is evidence on both sides of this)
2. on the reef and most likely in our tanks, macro-algaes compete with corals, stunt the growth of corals and kill corals - even without touching them.

Of course - you may disagree...please do...its only my opinion (at the moment). I would like to see evidence that this is not correct and am happy to show evidence that it is.

 

[Pete polyp]

My live rock consumes every bit of N I can throw at it.

 

[smh254]

All my corals are growing fine but they lose all there color until I started dosing po3. Here are some befor and after. This change took 2 months.

 

[Wiz]

First, I removed the gfo a while ago as I said. So there is nothing to "keep the algae in check".

Second, my nitrates were low to 0 before I added the large fuge.

Third, I did have high phos and a lot of bad algaes before I added the large fuge. And now I don't. and my corals are growing fine.

Fourth, when I started reefing I could not keep nitrates low. They were over 200 and I could not keep a lot of sps or lps alive. Also had trouble with zoas. Also, I had a 40-60 ppm soike in nitrates in this tank early on due to my wife overfeeding and some of my corals srarted to die. Brought it down and fine again.

So, I personally would never dose nitrate or phos. I figure they get it even when its low or undetectable in the reef from feeding. And the oceans have plenty of algaes sharing the water with coral. I have not heard of algae killing coral simply by growing nearby. Competing for space maybe. But a stand alone fuge offers no resistance as far as I can tell. Nitrate in the ocean is almost undetectable. Phos at surface level is really really low. So I don't believe a high nutrient enviornment is good for your reef as it is unnatural.
I believe in order to keep a thriving reef you should keep it as close to their natural enviornment as possable. This is how I go about it. My temp runs higher than recomended for this reason and I try my best to keep nutrients about right. (Easier said than done). But I'm sure there are many different ways of doing it.