Is Hawaii Close For Good?

[brick-brothers]

I've been checking out the prices of ppl selling tangs on these forums. Prices are alil crazy. So my question is, is Hawaii closed for good? Ask for a friend

 

[davidcalgary29]

There is actually a study on this.
It’s less than 1% from collection to retail

that number may seem large to you but it’s actually an extreme reduction over historical take despite the fact that during that period numbers of fish in all areas increased 110%.

These fish are distributed worldwide

I'm not sure I understand -- are you saying that there's less than 1% mortality from the point of collection to retail sale?

200,000 tangs per year from just one source seems to suggest that there's a vast market for these fish that isn't the North American aquarium trade. All but one of the yellow tangs that I've seen offered for sale in Alberta at retail over the past year have been farmed. Where are these wild fish going??

 

[Wasabiroot]

Ornamental fisheries management and captive breeding shouldn't be mutually exclusive. They can coexist, and probably coordinate. The ultimate goal is for the business producing the fish to make money and have livelihood and the consumer to have the fish. This is true for fishing wild populations OR aquaculture.
We all have basically no issue purchasing a frag of maricultured or aquacultured coral over one from the ocean - likely because of the impact. If a company wishes to cater to a different clientele desiring a product 100% land to land, that's fine in my eyes, especially if they can make it profitable. The price is also already starting to decrease because the availability is increasing.

To my perception, the Hawaii ban wasn't some malicious evil Guvmint plot to hug the reef, but it was certainly not vetted or researched as well as it should have been before hand. It looks as though there is potential for changes in a positive manner that recognize the sustainable industry of Hawaii. However, if nothing else captive breeding makes the end consumer (the reefer) less susceptible to species availability. And we need to be honest: sometimes ornamental fisheries do cause great harm (I. E. Bangaii Cardinalfish, endemic to a small strait, having their population significantly impacted). So supporting captive breeding is beneficial here too.

Scolymia were just confirmed to be bred in a specialized breeding facility. If they are ever banned from export, plenty benefit by having this research. I don't necessarily see an issue with an older money making scheme being supplanted by something newer, especially if it's adapting to a swing like that.

I can absolutely see the frustration in the ornamental aquatics industry in Hawaii but perhaps we can look at the positives above too.
Just my 2c as a hobbyist.

 

[adittam]

I agree most of the yellow tangs I saw for sale before the shutdown did not look good at all. How much are these going for?

It’s my LFS also; they’re $149.99 each.

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

I'm not sure I understand -- are you saying that there's less than 1% mortality from the point of collection to retail sale?

200,000 tangs per year from just one source seems to suggest that there's a vast market for these fish that isn't the North American aquarium trade. All but one of the yellow tangs that I've seen offered for sale in Alberta at retail over the past year have been farmed. Where are these wild fish going??

That’s exactly what I’m saying

they’re going into aquariums worldwide
Canada is a tiny market unfortunately

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

I'm not sure I understand -- are you saying that there's less than 1% mortality from the point of collection to retail sale?

200,000 tangs per year from just one source seems to suggest that there's a vast market for these fish that isn't the North American aquarium trade. All but one of the yellow tangs that I've seen offered for sale in Alberta at retail over the past year have been farmed. Where are these wild fish going??

And Hawaii is the ONLY source

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

Ornamental fisheries management and captive breeding shouldn't be mutually exclusive. They can coexist, and probably coordinate. The ultimate goal is for the business producing the fish to make money and have livelihood and the consumer to have the fish. This is true for fishing wild populations OR aquaculture.
We all have basically no issue purchasing a frag of maricultured or aquacultured coral over one from the ocean - likely because of the impact. If a company wishes to cater to a different clientele desiring a product 100% land to land, that's fine in my eyes, especially if they can make it profitable. The price is also already starting to decrease because the availability is increasing.

To my perception, the Hawaii ban wasn't some malicious evil Guvmint plot to hug the reef, but it was certainly not vetted or researched as well as it should have been before hand. It looks as though there is potential for changes in a positive manner that recognize the sustainable industry of Hawaii. However, if nothing else captive breeding makes the end consumer (the reefer) less susceptible to species availability. And we need to be honest: sometimes ornamental fisheries do cause great harm (I. E. Bangaii Cardinalfish, endemic to a small strait, having their population significantly impacted). So supporting captive breeding is beneficial here too.

Scolymia were just confirmed to be bred in a specialized breeding facility. If they are ever banned from export, plenty benefit by having this research. I don't necessarily see an issue with an older money making scheme being supplanted by something newer, especially if it's adapting to a swing like that.

I can absolutely see the frustration in the ornamental aquatics industry in Hawaii but perhaps we can look at the positives above too.
Just my 2c as a hobbyist.

Not sure who you’re addressing as I haven’t seen anyone claiming that aquaculture and sustainable fisheries as being mutually exclusive. Like I said, we should be striving for a harmonious balance. Your perception of why Hawaii has been temporarily suspended is incorrect however. For starters, it wasn’t the “guvmint” that shut us down. It was litigation from a radical environmental group that won’t accept the findings of science and management. You say it wasn’t certainly vetted as it should have been and once again this is plain ignorance. It’s the most studied and managed inshore fishery in the world. That’s just a fact and I really wish people would take the time to learn prior to making outlandish statements such as this. The fishery in west Hawaii is the benchmark when it comes to aquarium fisheries worldwide.

This is why the top 20 ichthyologist on planet earth have personally given testimony in support of this fishery. People such as Dr Bruce Carlson, Dr. Richard Pyle, Randall Kosaki etc.If you’re interested, go listen to their testimony on this matter. You may be surprised at what you learn

the only positives that I see in this whole mess is that the truth will triumph over lies when the fishery is finally reopened

 

[Wasabiroot]

Not sure who you’re addressing as I haven’t seen anyone claiming that aquaculture and sustainable fisheries as being mutually exclusive. Like I said, we should be striving for a harmonious balance. Your perception of why Hawaii has been temporarily suspended is incorrect however. For starters, it wasn’t the “guvmint” that shut us down. It was litigation from a radical environmental group that won’t accept the findings of science and management. You say it wasn’t certainly vetted as it should have been and once again this is plain ignorance. It’s the most studied and managed inshore fishery in the world. That’s just a fact and I really wish people would take the time to learn prior to making outlandish statements such as this. The fishery in west Hawaii is the benchmark when it comes to aquarium fisheries worldwide.

This is why the top 20 ichthyologist on planet earth have personally given testimony in support of this fishery. People such as Dr Bruce Carlson, Dr. Richard Pyle, Randall Kosaki etc.If you’re interested, go listen to their testimony on this matter. You may be surprised at what you learn

the only positives that I see in this whole mess is that the truth will triumph over lies when the fishery is finally reopened

The knee-jerk ban I'm saying wasn't up to par. I was agreeing with you.

I mostly meant that one day the balance might not be harmonious and that's OK - one side will have to adjust to the conditions just like any business.

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

The knee-jerk ban I'm saying wasn't up to par. I was agreeing with you.

I mostly meant that one day the balance might not be harmonious and that's OK - one side will have to adjust to the conditions just like any business.

Oh. My apologies. I misunderstood what you were saying.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm not sure I understand -- are you saying that there's less than 1% mortality from the point of collection to retail sale?

200,000 tangs per year from just one source seems to suggest that there's a vast market for these fish that isn't the North American aquarium trade. All but one of the yellow tangs that I've seen offered for sale in Alberta at retail over the past year have been farmed. Where are these wild fish going??

200,000 is an estimate and yes is about .09 percent. Besides Hawaii, there is I believe north Hawaii with additional tangs. It was not so much a ban as it was an opportunity to place collection on hold to assess the amount and availablity of species available - An assurance that they were not being over caught in simple terms.
Someone asked if coral was affected. Not really and the issue with coral harvesting worldwide was due mainly to die-off from above warm temperatures (some call it global warming) in which coral was lost in high numbers and Sri Lanka, Fiji, tonga, Indonesia, I believe Florida jumping on board want to see these reefs restored before accepting collection of coral once again.
Here is where the subject of aquaculture, farming and restoration projects come into play

 

[Wasabiroot]

Oh. My apologies. I misunderstood what you were saying.

No worries. You obviously work there and I'd trust your take on it provided there's no obfuscation of data. But from my amateur observations, if fisheries are managed as well as Hawaii that's a good thing.

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

200,000 is an estimate and yes is about .09 percent. Besides Hawaii, there is I believe north Hawaii with additional tangs. It was not so much a ban as it was an opportunity to place collection on hold to assess the amount and availablity of species available - An assurance that they were not being over caught in simple terms.
Someone asked if coral was affected. Not really and the issue with coral harvesting worldwide was due mainly to die-off from above warm temperatures (some call it global warming) in which coral was lost in high numbers and Sri Lanka, Fiji, tonga, Indonesia, I believe Florida jumping on board want to see these reefs restored before accepting collection of coral once again.
Here is where the subject of aquaculture, farming and restoration projects come into play

Hey vetteguy!
The 200k figure is the proposed take or Total Allowable Catch aka TAC. It’s a quota system. This catch represents approximately 3% of the yellow tang population in west Hawaii in the 30 to 60 foot depth range. If you analyze the overall population in West Hawaii meaning from waters edge to the depth where the reefs stop(90 feet approx) it’s less than 1%. If you were to quantify this proposed TAC to the entire island of Hawaii meaning the east side included it’s further reduced. The East side of Hawaii will not be fished so it’s basically an off limits area for yellow tangs. I’m addition to this, other islands in the main Hawaiian islands will not be producing aquarium fish(Kauai,Maui,Lanai,Molokai) and Oahu may or may not be depending on their environmental review process.You are right that the NW Hawaiian islands are protected…in fact, it’s the largest marine sanctuary in the world!
There is no coral collection in the Hawaiian islands and there hasn’t been for decades

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

No worries. You obviously work there and I'd trust your take on it provided there's no obfuscation of data. But from my amateur observations, if fisheries are managed as well as Hawaii that's a good thing.

What’s interesting about the aquarium fishery in Hawaii is the mutual respect between fishery scientists/managers and the fisherman. It started out on a more hostile footing back in 2000 when all the regulations took effect but over time both sides started to listen to each other and it has grown into a positive thing. For me, I think that’s one of the best things about it!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey vetteguy!
The 200k figure is the proposed take or Total Allowable Catch aka TAC. It’s a quota system. This catch represents approximately 3% of the yellow tang population in west Hawaii in the 30 to 60 foot depth range. If you analyze the overall population in West Hawaii meaning from waters edge to the depth where the reefs stop(90 feet approx) it’s less than 1%. If you were to quantify this proposed TAC to the entire island of Hawaii meaning the east side included it’s further reduced. The East side of Hawaii will not be fished so it’s basically an off limits area for yellow tangs. I’m addition to this, other islands in the main Hawaiian islands will not be producing aquarium fish(Kauai,Maui,Lanai,Molokai) and Oahu may or may not be depending on their environmental review process.You are right that the NW Hawaiian islands are protected…in fact, it’s the largest marine sanctuary in the world!
There is no coral collection in the Hawaiian islands and there hasn’t been for decades

I said North- Yes. . . West hawaii. Im on road and trying to think and drive LOL- daughter is typing for me

 

[3429810]

@Kona Diver are you really going to just ignore me now? You literally just pumped yourself up about how much knowledge you have not responding to anything I said so I asked again and now you respond to every other comment. You are trying to still make points that fall flat on their faces when a full on ban comes and it will. Even to your point of taking peoples jobs away I think a closure would probably be a little worse for that. I’m seriously interested in why you think aquaculture is so bad when the reality is majority of these places will shut down in the future. Sorry not trying to be a dick but you have side stepped that critical point and it’s a major flaw in your argument. Doesn’t matter how good a fishery is managed if it’s closed. If we stick with your point of view on this we will not be able to buy any Hawaiian livestock in the future and I don’t think a lot of people would enjoy that.

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

@Kona Diver are you really going to just ignore me now? You literally just pumped yourself up about how much knowledge you have not responding to anything I said so I asked again and now you respond to every other comment. You are trying to still make points that fall flat on their faces when a full on ban comes and it will. Even to your point of taking peoples jobs away I think a closure would probably be a little worse for that. I’m seriously interested in why you think aquaculture is so bad when the reality is majority of these places will shut down in the future. Sorry not trying to be a dick but you have side stepped that critical point and it’s a major flaw in your argument. Doesn’t matter how good a fishery is managed if it’s closed. If we stick with your point of view on this we will not be able to buy any Hawaiian livestock in the future and I don’t think a lot of people would enjoy

@Kona Diver are you really going to just ignore me now? You literally just pumped yourself up about how much knowledge you have not responding to anything I said so I asked again and now you respond to every other comment. You are trying to still make points that fall flat on their faces when a full on ban comes and it will. Even to your point of taking peoples jobs away I think a closure would probably be a little worse for that. I’m seriously interested in why you think aquaculture is so bad when the reality is majority of these places will shut down in the future. Sorry not trying to be a dick but you have side stepped that critical point and it’s a major flaw in your argument. Doesn’t matter how good a fishery is managed if it’s closed. If we stick with your point of view on this we will not be able to buy any Hawaiian livestock in the future and I don’t think a lot of people would enjoy that.

Good morning Bert!

wasnt side stepping you or avoiding you or whatever. Your comments didn’t ping my notifications or they got lost in a batch of them. Let me try to answer your questions. Your central argument is based on two points. One, a full on ban will happen, and two, You think, I think, aquaculture is bad. The first point is predicated on a hypothetical and the only reason it becomes a reality is people such as yourself, giving up in defending what’s the truth,and what is right. The fact of the matter is that if people would actually organize, or put some effort into the defense of science based management, a ban will never materialize.(and if it still did, the hobby will be crushed inevitability)

Keep in mind that the radical environmentalist have been trying to ban the Hawaii fishery for over 20 years and it’s never happened. The reason for that is the fishery became more organized, more managed and we persisted. Hawaii only got caught up in this environmental review process because of judicial activism and the simple fact that the trade/hobby didn’t put up a proper resistance. Some did, most did not. They don’t want to be bothered with it. They assume if they just have their aquarium with a couple sticks roasting under radions, maybe a snowflake clown from ORA….it’s all good. But is it? Do you understand the thought process of our opposition? Do you understand their goals? Do you know how “wildlife” is classified? I would question your depth of knowledge on who the industry/hobby is tangling with. Maybe do yourself a favor and go read Pijacs info page as a primer and if you need advanced material…circle back to me as I’ve been fighting these people for over a decade.
They will not stop until the trade/hobby is decimated. The only way to stop them is to start fighting back immediately. Defend sustainable practices. Don’t vacate the field without a fight. Like I said, you won’t aquaculture your way out of it. The only way we win is for sustainable fisheries, aquaculture, and the hobby to organize and fight. All three components are vital

second, I never said aquaculture is bad nor do I think that.Your making an argument against one I never made. That’s not what I said, go reread the context.
i think that there is a wide field of fish or even certain corals that are prime candidates for aquaculture. Then there are ones that are not…especially when they’re being sustainably managed. The tech for food production and larviculture applies to virtually all the broadcast spawners. The problem is the effort and the yield. This is why focus should be on fish that are dangerous to collect, restricted, from areas where poor practices persist,etc etc
Just look at Hawaiian fish for example. The Achilles tang is a prime candidate for aquaculture. The data shows it’s struggling, the fishers voluntarily restricted themselves from taking it, it’s not necessarily a robust species in captivity, and it’s valuable. Prime candidate for AC versus a yellow tang. Yellow tangs: very well managed. In fact, the MOST managed fish in the aquarium industry worldwide. Does excellent in captivity. Provides income for many at the source. Inexpensive(not lately but will be again)

I support aquaculture. If I didn’t I wouldn’t have spent so much time doing it for a large portion of my life. But I also support science based management. When I apply my knowledge of both to the bigger picture of our hobby/trade and then consider who the critics are and what they actually want, I see a distinct path that we need to walk if this thing is going to exist into the future.

the hobby and aquaculture are very much dependent on wild stock…..it’s the vast majority of the hobby…always has been.
Best we support sustainable practices, aquaculture what we should, and put our passion into our efforts of fighting the good fight. We only lose if you do NOTHING.

aloha my friend

 

[3429810]

Good morning Bert!

wasnt side stepping you or avoiding you or whatever. Your comments didn’t ping my notifications or they got lost in a batch of them. Let me try to answer your questions. Your central argument is based on two points. One, a full on ban will happen, and two, You think, I think, aquaculture is bad. The first point is predicated on a hypothetical and the only reason it becomes a reality is people such as yourself, giving up in defending what’s the truth,and what is right. The fact of the matter is that if people would actually organize, or put some effort into the defense of science based management, a ban will never materialize.(and if it still did, the hobby will be crushed inevitability)

Keep in mind that the radical environmentalist have been trying to ban the Hawaii fishery for over 20 years and it’s never happened. The reason for that is the fishery became more organized, more managed and we persisted. Hawaii only got caught up in this environmental review process because of judicial activism and the simple fact that the trade/hobby didn’t put up a proper resistance. Some did, most did not. They don’t want to be bothered with it. They assume if they just have their aquarium with a couple sticks roasting under radions, maybe a snowflake clown from ORA….it’s all good. But is it? Do you understand the thought process of our opposition? Do you understand their goals? Do you know how “wildlife” is classified? I would question your depth of knowledge on who the industry/hobby is tangling with. Maybe do yourself a favor and go read Pijacs info page as a primer and if you need advanced material…circle back to me as I’ve been fighting these people for over a decade.
They will not stop until the trade/hobby is decimated. The only way to stop them is to start fighting back immediately. Defend sustainable practices. Don’t vacate the field without a fight. Like I said, you won’t aquaculture your way out of it. The only way we win is for sustainable fisheries, aquaculture, and the hobby to organize and fight. All three components are vital

second, I never said aquaculture is bad nor do I think that.Your making an argument against one I never made. That’s not what I said, go reread the context.
i think that there is a wide field of fish or even certain corals that are prime candidates for aquaculture. Then there are ones that are not…especially when they’re being sustainably managed. The tech for food production and larviculture applies to virtually all the broadcast spawners. The problem is the effort and the yield. This is why focus should be on fish that are dangerous to collect, restricted, from areas where poor practices persist,etc etc
Just look at Hawaiian fish for example. The Achilles tang is a prime candidate for aquaculture. The data shows it’s struggling, the fishers voluntarily restricted themselves from taking it, it’s not necessarily a robust species in captivity, and it’s valuable. Prime candidate for AC versus a yellow tang. Yellow tangs: very well managed. In fact, the MOST managed fish in the aquarium industry worldwide. Does excellent in captivity. Provides income for many at the source. Inexpensive(not lately but will be again)

I support aquaculture. If I didn’t I wouldn’t have spent so much time doing it for a large portion of my life. But I also support science based management. When I apply my knowledge of both to the bigger picture of our hobby/trade and then consider who the critics are and what they actually want, I see a distinct path that we need to walk if this thing is going to exist into the future.

the hobby and aquaculture are very much dependent on wild stock…..it’s the vast majority of the hobby…always has been.
Best we support sustainable practices, aquaculture what we should, and put our passion into our efforts of fighting the good fight. We only lose if you do NOTHING.

aloha my friend

My bad then just seemed like you were answering every other comment but mine. Like I said in my original post I agree with everything you said up until you said it wasn’t ethical to aquaculture certain species. I do get your point short term but in the long term I really think there will be shut downs of a lot of regions either by the regions themselves or your own country banning imports. May be I should have been more clear that I’m not worried about Hawaii specifically that just happens to be the topic at hand. Because of all the things you have been talking about Hawaii seems on the less likely side of things to shut down permanently but other regions will for sure. Sorry didn’t try to make it seem like you didn’t support aquaculture just was trying to get across the point that might be the only option at some point in time for certain species so any and all data and practice breeding helps. I’ll end it here because like I said I do agree with your stance on what we should be doing.

I’m jealous of you right now it’s currently about 2c with the wind here right now so enjoy the warmth and have a good day.

 

[Sleepingtiger]

Good morning Bert!

wasnt side stepping you or avoiding you or whatever. Your comments didn’t ping my notifications or they got lost in a batch of them. Let me try to answer your questions. Your central argument is based on two points. One, a full on ban will happen, and two, You think, I think, aquaculture is bad. The first point is predicated on a hypothetical and the only reason it becomes a reality is people such as yourself, giving up in defending what’s the truth,and what is right. The fact of the matter is that if people would actually organize, or put some effort into the defense of science based management, a ban will never materialize.(and if it still did, the hobby will be crushed inevitability)

Keep in mind that the radical environmentalist have been trying to ban the Hawaii fishery for over 20 years and it’s never happened. The reason for that is the fishery became more organized, more managed and we persisted. Hawaii only got caught up in this environmental review process because of judicial activism and the simple fact that the trade/hobby didn’t put up a proper resistance. Some did, most did not. They don’t want to be bothered with it. They assume if they just have their aquarium with a couple sticks roasting under radions, maybe a snowflake clown from ORA….it’s all good. But is it? Do you understand the thought process of our opposition? Do you understand their goals? Do you know how “wildlife” is classified? I would question your depth of knowledge on who the industry/hobby is tangling with. Maybe do yourself a favor and go read Pijacs info page as a primer and if you need advanced material…circle back to me as I’ve been fighting these people for over a decade.
They will not stop until the trade/hobby is decimated. The only way to stop them is to start fighting back immediately. Defend sustainable practices. Don’t vacate the field without a fight. Like I said, you won’t aquaculture your way out of it. The only way we win is for sustainable fisheries, aquaculture, and the hobby to organize and fight. All three components are vital

second, I never said aquaculture is bad nor do I think that.Your making an argument against one I never made. That’s not what I said, go reread the context.
i think that there is a wide field of fish or even certain corals that are prime candidates for aquaculture. Then there are ones that are not…especially when they’re being sustainably managed. The tech for food production and larviculture applies to virtually all the broadcast spawners. The problem is the effort and the yield. This is why focus should be on fish that are dangerous to collect, restricted, from areas where poor practices persist,etc etc
Just look at Hawaiian fish for example. The Achilles tang is a prime candidate for aquaculture. The data shows it’s struggling, the fishers voluntarily restricted themselves from taking it, it’s not necessarily a robust species in captivity, and it’s valuable. Prime candidate for AC versus a yellow tang. Yellow tangs: very well managed. In fact, the MOST managed fish in the aquarium industry worldwide. Does excellent in captivity. Provides income for many at the source. Inexpensive(not lately but will be again)

I support aquaculture. If I didn’t I wouldn’t have spent so much time doing it for a large portion of my life. But I also support science based management. When I apply my knowledge of both to the bigger picture of our hobby/trade and then consider who the critics are and what they actually want, I see a distinct path that we need to walk if this thing is going to exist into the future.

the hobby and aquaculture are very much dependent on wild stock…..it’s the vast majority of the hobby…always has been.
Best we support sustainable practices, aquaculture what we should, and put our passion into our efforts of fighting the good fight. We only lose if you do NOTHING.

aloha my friend

thank you for your expanded thoughts on aquaculture. I think you're spot on when it comes to use aquaculture on species that are endangered and not on fish that are regulated so that they are sustainable.

I would hate to be dealing with these activist. They are myopic and act as if their emotional response are good enough to disregard all science.

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

thank you for your expanded thoughts on aquaculture. I think you're spot on when it comes to use aquaculture on species that are endangered and not on fish that are regulated so that they are sustainable.

I would hate to be dealing with these activist. They are myopic and act as if their emotional response are good enough to disregard all science.

You’re most welcome. I fully agree with you on everything you stated.

if you could, join the fight. Sign up with Pijac and let’s raise an army of reefers to protect what we love.

 

[flashsmith]

I like a spirited debate. But all I'm getting out of this is the old analogy of stepping over a dollar to pick up a nickel. From another viewpoint as a lifelong hardcore angler based in Florida for decades. I've seen first hand how poor management and human pollution can destroy a fishery. Pollution killing off miles and miles of oyster beds and grass flats. Manatees starving to death from lack of said grass flats to feed. Entire fisheries decimated by greedy commercial fishermen and anglers. The fact is our fisheries are declining all over the world. So yea we need to start protecting what we have left. You can't eat money no matter how cook and season it.. The biggest issue I have with collections is the multitude of losses that occurs to get us that one fish we want.

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

I like a spirited debate. But all I'm getting out of this is the old analogy of stepping over a dollar to pick up a nickel. From another viewpoint as a lifelong hardcore angler based in Florida for decades. I've seen first hand how poor management and human pollution can destroy a fishery. Pollution killing off miles and miles of oyster beds and grass flats. Manatees starving to death from lack of said grass flats to feed. Entire fisheries decimated by greedy commercial fishermen and anglers. The fact is our fisheries are declining all over the world. So yea we need to start protecting what we have left. You can't eat money no matter how cook and season it.. The biggest issue I have with collections is the multitude of losses that occurs to get us that one fish we want.

Sorry. Your viewpoint is in conflict with the facts. Maybe that’s true in Florida, but you can’t just claim that’s true in Hawaii or anywhere else.
Here are the facts: Hawaii’s aquarium fishery on the big island is well managed. The number one collected fish is the yellow tang. It’s numbers have more than DOUBLED in overall population since the management plan took effect 20 years ago. We are now at saturation for the adult population meaning the reefs carrying capacity is maxed out.

your biggest issue shouldn’t be an issue at all if you read the scientific findings. Less than 1% of the fish perish from collection to retail. If anything, your gripe is more with the hobby than the science or the professionals.
I’m also a commercial food fisherman. Have been off and on for twenty years. A lot of what is claimed in the news isn’t actually so. I’ll leave it at that