Is high tech really better, and at what cost?

[lbacha]

I have an apex, seneye, cameras and other gadgets on my new nano reef. Some may consider them overkill but I travel extensively so I needed to have a system in place to monitor and control my tank from a distance and high tech gadgets filled that bill. I use them on my planted tank and vivarium as well and can easy leave for two weeks knowing the tank will be safe and I will be alerted if there is an issue so I can send someone over to deal with it. If you are home all the time and can keep an eye on your tank then you may need less monitoring but I don't have that luxury.

The gadgets don't replace basic care though I still observe my tank for issues do a lot of manual cleaning and when I'm home I turn a lot of the automation off and do it by hand

 

[Oldreefer44]

I went the whole hi tech route myself until I realized that I wanted my success to depend on my thoughts and opinions and not what a bunch of sensors and electronic readouts were trying to tell me. After all I have been in the hobby for several decades and feel like I can reliably tell if something isn't right just by a few quick observations. Since going the 'simple' route I have found that my tank is just as healthy and in many ways more interesting than when I depended on my Apex which, by the way am willing to depart with for a fair price. Obviously it is also much less expensive. This also hit home when I was going through all my "spare" reef equipment that takes up a sizeable portion of my garage. I found a lot of what was once considered 'must have" equipment that is now considered obsolete or ineffective for what it was originally purposed. While I totally get why some want to have all the latest tech and thoroughly enjoy it, my psychologist training would tell me that it is more based on personality traits than anything else. I would guess that like many other things in our society, roughly 50% of the reefing community would want all of the latest technology while the other 50% are perfectly happy to go "old school" One isn't better that the other, just different.

 

[Gribbliest]

I understand your point and seems you’ve taken a good lesson. Hope others read it and learn.
At this hobby everyone talks about learning, but few really follow that path. By reading others experience they are lead to believe that it’s just a knobs and sensors challenge.
That’s not true as you realize.
Don’t feel bad about it because it’s common. What’s not common is somebody be so blunt about it and share the way you’ve done it. I congrat you for this and hope others learn.
When I help some newbie to start a reef tank I always struggle to persuade them to keep it simple and to study water chemistry and biology. The fact his that most of them start going to forums and LFS and spend thousand in equipment, corals and fish. The result it’s always the same. Thousands spend and hundreds death. And even worst they carry on building a pile of unused equipment and after some years they say you were right and I should have heard you.
I use to say that when you see a new reefer carrying water, hand dosing and keeps asking about Phosphates, nitrates, Alk, Calcium and Magnesium consumptions for more than six months that’s some one that loves the hobby and it’s learning.
When I see a new reefer that talks about Apex, led channels and ph graphs i know it’s merchant best friend and after spending all money it will quit the hobby.
Try get to basics and enjoy.

As a new reefer, there's also a VAST amount of information to take in. To me, there's only so much I can absorb before it has no relevance or meaning to me any more. Unfortunately, the term 'learn from your mistakes' is a real thing. We DO learn by our mistakes, it's what makes us human if you ask me (I know, you didn't!).

I would say that as a technological person, who works in the vast IT industry, with a penchant for gadgets, I enjoy that part of the hobby. It however doesn't detract from other parts. I have all of my test kits here to measure those water chemistry levels, and I try to understand the relationships between the various elements.

What I can tell you, is that I love being able to look at my 'pH graphs' - why, because if I see a trend, it means something - like the impact of light and day/night vs pH. I can see shifts in my Conductivity - why, because my ATO isn't working right and just dumped a load of RO into my tank... These gadgets if used right, and the data if analysed correctly, can assist in better husbandry. They are however not the entire answer, and should never be considered so.

Just my £0.02 (about $0.025 if you care!! )

 

[Denisk]

I would say I’m in the middle of this one. I do believe in high end equipment but more or less when it comes to a well built tank,stand, and or sump. I love my ati t5 lights as well as my hydra 52’s but also my black box leds.

My apex in my opinion is a life saver but I do not take full advantage like some of the reefers out on the forum. Mine is for simple tasks like timers, BRS dosers, heaters, ph monitoring and temp monitoring. I do not however let do my water changes and etc.

The one thing I do not spend money on high end skimmers and pumps. I love the concept of them but I see way to many people who have trouble with them. I hate how some people are having to send their returns and or wavemakers for a week to the manufacturer to get fixed while sitting with either no wave maker or return unless you have some replacement especially when they’re not cheap whatsoever. I prefer to let it run and if it does break, I can have a new jebao pump purchased and in my house in 2 days (thanks to amazon prime )

If I can one day afford having the high end pumps with just an extra one sitting around, I will. But for now I will rely on the jebao ones and that have not disappointed at all. Totally my opinion but I would say I’m in different. What works for one may not be the same for the next.

 

[Alfrareef]

As a new reefer, there's also a VAST amount of information to take in. To me, there's only so much I can absorb before it has no relevance or meaning to me any more. Unfortunately, the term 'learn from your mistakes' is a real thing. We DO learn by our mistakes, it's what makes us human if you ask me (I know, you didn't!).

I would say that as a technological person, who works in the vast IT industry, with a penchant for gadgets, I enjoy that part of the hobby. It however doesn't detract from other parts. I have all of my test kits here to measure those water chemistry levels, and I try to understand the relationships between the various elements.

What I can tell you, is that I love being able to look at my 'pH graphs' - why, because if I see a trend, it means something - like the impact of light and day/night vs pH. I can see shifts in my Conductivity - why, because my ATO isn't working right and just dumped a load of RO into my tank... These gadgets if used right, and the data if analysed correctly, can assist in better husbandry. They are however not the entire answer, and should never be considered so.

Just my £0.02 (about $0.025 if you care!! )

Really I don’t care.
I’m a system engineer. I design microchip for a living so I can understand all that and more and believe me I know what we are talking about it.
I’m also a diver and with what I’ve already watched at the sea world I know what path I want to go as a reefer.
It’s my opinion and I haven’t stated to please or displease someone. It’s a forum and i should know I shouldn’t write his, but if you were near me I would be pleased to invite you for my house and talk about it over a beer.

 

[Mark Gray]

In my Opinion for what it's worth $0, I like the high tech I could not run my system with out my Apex I travel for work it has save my many times. I love the new LED's save me a lot of power due to house cooling costs mostly and I like my Refugium sure helps with nutrient export

 

[lefkonj]

Personally it is about where you want to spend your time. I have had a controller since I jumped back into the hobby a few years ago, and won't look back. It has alerted me to many issues and even prevented a few. If you have the time and desire to validate all sorts of equipment frequently, then dump the controllers, if you want to spend more time caring for the creatures, automation is a great way to have that time.

I will say this, and it has nothing to do with the amount of tech in the hobby, but the quality of equipment has degraded. This isn't a fish thing but anything. It used to be that a fridge would last you forever, now it is 10-15 years. Pumps are great but they have gone down in their lifespan and that is a fact across the board.

 

[WandaMay]

I have kept fish tanks for 20 years and been doing sw for 10, I have never had the high tech gadgets mostly due to costs. We recently upgraded to a 210 gallon reef and have discussed getting a controller and ato but I tend to lean towards doing it by hand because I feel it keeps me more in touch with what's going on in the tank. I enjoy my 20-30 minutes of tank maintenance in the morning and worry high tech will lead me to forgetting to check things daily. I do have the huge advantage of working at home so usually I am not far from the tank.

 

[ruidos99]

I have used apex from day 1. I would say more than 5 - 6 years.

Some modules have faild, but if you program correctly its not that big a deal.

I would never run a reef without an apex! they are computers you have to take care of them

 

[carpetlayer719]

When I started in saltwater we used under gravel filters with air stones to create lift for flow for a biological filter and power heads were cutting edge technology! I remember having a sodium vapor street light that got really hot and had a lot light spell over lol wow my wife is a saint! Anyway the new tech is here and I like the help it gives us in monitoring and ease of things like dosing. But I was born in 1961 so l really wish it all came with a millennial in the box to set it up!!

 

[bobbyM]

I like the high tech lights, pumps, and skimmers. I’ve never used a full system controller on any of the tanks I’ve cared for. I am my system controller even if I had one. A controller can tell you if your system is “functioning”, but can’t tell you if it’s actually “working”.

I’m cycling my new tank right now and I catch myself staring at my skimmer for hours. Watching it produce foam. I have my light barely coming on because they are not really needed at this stage. Pumps are blasting! I’m checking water flow and dead spots. Water temp is not a problem. Idk how much I would miss if I relied on a controller.

 

[Paul B]

I have none of that stuff mentioned in this thread and don't know what some of it is. My most high tech piece of equipment is a 40 year old heater.

 

[Mark Gray]

I have kept fish tanks for 20 years and been doing sw for 10, I have never had the high tech gadgets mostly due to costs. We recently upgraded to a 210 gallon reef and have discussed getting a controller and ato but I tend to lean towards doing it by hand because I feel it keeps me more in touch with what's going on in the tank. I enjoy my 20-30 minutes of tank maintenance in the morning and worry high tech will lead me to forgetting to check things daily. I do have the huge advantage of working at home so usually I am not far from the tank.

Once you get a controller you will never go back, They are a really good tool, and the ATO will help to

 

[Bpb]

I’d rather have quality and reliability over full featured any day of the week. My tank is a mixed bag of new and classic equipment.

I use a calcium reactor because I like the near limitless amount of supplementing they can provide, and the balanced trace elements they provide. Cost savings is basically a wash over the long run in salt and liquid supplements to provide what the stony corals need so my choice to use one is neither motivated by cost nor gadgetry fascination. They just perform a very important task, and do it well. Saves me a lot of time and provides a lot of stability.

But i use tunze powerheads, t5ho lighting and an eheim AC return pump. I have zero intention of ever paying the premium for ecotech marine products, as they cost 2-5x as much as most comparable products and lemons seem to be just as frequent.

Reliability to me is top priority. I’m very busy (most of us are) and don’t have an unlimited budget. I’d rather spend money on quality gear that is known to last a long time. I HATE having to replace broken things. I just want to feed the fish, occasionally test the water, and otherwise just enjoy the tank. I don’t want to have to mess with lots of settings on lots of gear, constantly troubleshoot, and swap out every piece of the puzzle every few months for something new.

I understand all of that is actually a great deal of fun and part of the point in the hobby. I have friends who have spent tens of thousands of dollars on gear but are completely uninterested in fish and corals. Some even going to lengths of tearing down tanks and rebuilding new ones as soon as coraline kicks in because at that point the tank is dirty and they want a clean new one. It’s not about the livestock with some folks. It’s he excitement of the build. I get that. But it’s not for me.

I use a controller I bought years ago but honestly it’s not essential to me and when it dies I likely won’t replace it.

It all just depends on what your personal goals are. If you’re at a place in life where spending 30-60 minutes a day on the tank is not only possible, but enjoyable, that is fantastic. You likely don’t want or need a lot of automation. If you’re rushed, work long hours, travel a lot, have many small children, but still love the hobby. You’re just gonna to need help from some technology. Simple as fhat

 

[Gribbliest]

Really I don’t care.
I’m a system engineer. I design microchip for a living so I can understand all that and more and believe me I know what we are talking about it.
I’m also a diver and with what I’ve already watched at the sea world I know what path I want to go as a reefer.
It’s my opinion and I haven’t stated to please or displease someone. It’s a forum and i should know I shouldn’t write his, but if you were near me I would be pleased to invite you for my house and talk about it over a beer.

I am also a Systems Engineer - networking/security here. Also a diver.

As I said in my original post, people are successful with/without - it's entirely down to preference. I prefer to have tech - because I like toys, but I also do the low-tech maintenance!

Portugal isn't that near - not for just a chat an a beer anyway Used to be in the UK - would've been easier from there!

 

[Paul B]

If you’re at a place in life where spending 30-60 minutes a day on the tank is not only possible, but enjoyable, that is fantastic. You likely don’t want or need a lot of automation.

How can you even spend that much time on a tank? I may spend that much time on my tank in a month. I realize I don't have the nicest tank on here but what do people do with all that time?
I clean the glass every few days with a magnet and feed. Once every few months I change some water and that's about it. I wouldn't know what to do with all that time.

 

[Bpb]

How can you even spend that much time on a tank? I may spend that much time on my tank in a month. I realize I don't have the nicest tank on here but what do people do with all that time?
I clean the glass every few days with a magnet and feed. Once every few months I change some water and that's about it. I wouldn't know what to do with all that time.

Beats me! I was just echoing a previous statement

 

[njtiger aquariums]

I'm a tech person and believe these hi-end tech are too costly. I am building my own controller and so far only spent about $100 (including two touch screen cause one didn't work with my design). I control 4 outlets, log temp with alerts and log data. Now I understand not everyone is a tech person but with open source, like reef-pi, out there one can build their own controller real cheap.

As a tech person I can tell you tech does fail no matter how much you spend on them. Most tech should last you around 4 to 5 years before they should be looked at for upgrade

 

[lbacha]

I hear a lot of people equating high tech to controllers and processor controlled products. The concept of high tech reef tanks has been around since the 80's. Albert Theil's books talk all about it. High tech includes high end skimmers, reactors, calcium reactors, etc.

I find that a controller doesn't necessarily make a tank high or low tech it's the other equipment you use.