Is it safe to use copper in the DT?

[Colorado_Dude]

Happy New Year!

This morning I noticed two of my fish scratching themselves on the rock with white spots on their fins.
I believe it might be ich, but I will treat expecting the worse.
My QT tank is not large enough for all my fish.
I will remove all my live rock, sand, media and store them into plastic containers with water, heater and powerhead while I treat all my fish in my bare glass DT with Cupramine for 4 weeks.
Then after the 4 weeks period, dump 3/4 of the DT's water and then a week later bring all my live rock, sand and media back.

Would that be a safe procedure or will CP compromise my DT with copper for good?

 

[Jon Fishman]

Hard “No”

Keep CP out of the DT

 

[redfishbluefish]

First off, welcome to R2R. #WelcometoR2R

NO! You don't want to use copper in your DT....for two reasons (maybe more). 1. It is difficult to control and maintain concentration with the rock reacting with the copper. 2. It poisons your rock and now won't be able to have inverts for a very long time until it leaches out.

 

[Colorado_Dude]

First off, welcome to R2R. #WelcometoR2R

NO! You don't want to use copper in your DT....for two reasons (maybe more). 1. It is difficult to control and maintain concentration with the rock reacting with the copper. 2. It poisons your rock and now won't be able to have inverts for a very long time until it leaches out.

Thanks for replying.

Will copper harm my DT tank even if I remove all live rock, sand and media from it as I mentioned?

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

I had ich in my display tank about a year ago. No way I could catch out all of the fish, so I road it out. Only lost one fish, a powder blue tang. Other five tangs, clowns, angel, wrasse, etc. survived. Now I don't see any signs of ich anymore, but it is always going to be present at some low level.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Thanks for replying.

Will copper harm my DT tank even if I remove all live rock, sand and media from it as I mentioned?

That would work. Copper does not bind to glass or silicone. However, when you've let your rock sit for the period of time to allow the life cycle to complete itself (not sure of how long that is now....keeps changing), I'd still totally empty the tank and give it a rinse/wipe down with vinegar before filling it back up and putting rock, fish and sand back in.

 

[Billdogg]

If you do as you suggest and remove everything except the fish so you have nothing but a big glass box with water, fish, and Ich, then yes, you can go that route. You will have to empty the tank completely when the treatment is done, rinse it well, and then refill with fresh saltwater. Only after that can you return the sand. rocks, and any corals or inverts to the system. It will be a royal PIA.

I would STRONGLY recommend that you instead get a larger QT to treat the fish in. It can be something as simple as a large rubbermaid tote or as elaborate as a new glass tank (or tanks) with heaters, powerheads and all other equipment kept totally separate from the DT. Petco seems to have their $1/gallon sale going on almost all the time and used tanks of all sizes are available on craigslist etc for pennys on the $, so you should be able to find what you need fairly inexpensively. Certainly less expensive that treating in your DT as you propose and finding out after the fact that there is still copper contamination by killing off all your corals.

Personally, I would use the Tank Transfer Method (TTM). You can avoid the use of copper or any other medication, and when finished you will have rid your fish and system of Ich.

In either case, your main display will have to remain fallow (fishless) for a minimum of 72 days.

 

[Colorado_Dude]

Thanks guys, I found out that Petco is open today.
I have a 55g tank getting ready with RODI water to start the quarantine this evening.
Speaking of PIA, catching all the fish while trying to minimize their stress level is going to be a big one.

Should I leave my crabs, snails and coral bend shrimp in the DT during the 8- weeks fallow period?
Since it's going to be my first time treating ich possible velvet with Cupramine, any further advice as far as dosing and fish that I should avoid treating or be more cautious?

Here is my fish inventory

Tangs, Blue, Yellow, PB, 2 spot bristletooth
Clowns
Foxface
Lawnmower Blenny
Gobby
R Gramma
Firefish
Cardinals
Azure Damsels
Chromis

 

[Billdogg]

You can safely leave any inverts and corals in the tank while it is fallow. The Ich parasite requires a host fish to complete it's lifecycle.

You are going to have to keep a sharp eye on ammonia levels in the 55. Be prepared for a whole bunch of frequent water changes. And therein lies the rub with copper treatments. You have to keep the copper levels at therapeutic levels the entire treatment, and with frequent water changes that can become problematic. That's why I prefer TTM

 

[Jon Fishman]

How big of a tank? Full reef?

Catching fish is no fun!

 

[Colorado_Dude]

How big of a tank? Full reef?

Catching fish is no fun!

It's 71x24x17 inches tank.

 

[Paul B]

Will copper harm my DT tank even if I remove all live rock, sand and media from it as I mentioned?

Copper will not harm your tank in any way. Don't worry about it.
I even used copper in my tank for probably 4 or 5 years "with the rock and gravel in it." That was before reefs and all I had was dead coral skeletons and gravel. That tank is still running and is now a full blown reef almost 50 years old.

The gravel is the same I used with the copper but that is not a good Idea as that was before we kept corals and the tank had a few years of no copper before inverts became available.

 

[Colorado_Dude]

You can safely leave any inverts and corals in the tank while it is fallow. The Ich parasite requires a host fish to complete it's lifecycle.

You are going to have to keep a sharp eye on ammonia levels in the 55. Be prepared for a whole bunch of frequent water changes. And therein lies the rub with copper treatments. You have to keep the copper levels at therapeutic levels the entire treatment, and with frequent water chages that can become problematic. That's why I prefer TTM

Thanks!
I would mind doing TTM, but I am not sure if I knew exactly the diseases I am dealing with.

I have these 4 options below.
What would be the forum members opinion to safely and efficiently treat ich/velvet and other diseases the fishes might have?

1. TTM with Prazipro
2. Cupramine
3. CopperSafe
4. Cloriquine Phosphate

Would someone be able to start a poll with this questions?

 

[Billdogg]

If it's velvet, you have to act quickly. In all probability if it were, your fish would already be dead.

That leaves Ich as the most likely problem. I use TTM and prazipro on all new additions to my systems. The biggest problem with copper IMO, is that if it is at less than therapeutic levels it is not effective, if the level is too high it is toxic to the fish. This especially becomes an issue because some fish are more sensitive to copper than others.

Like PaulB, way back in the day I used copper because it was what we had. I, too, did it in the DT (fish only tank), and when I was done, ran polyfilter and tons of carbon for a few months to get it out. I wouldn't use it now except as a last resort because there are better methods.

 

[reef lover]

Welcome to r2r!

 

[Terri Caton]

Sure, if you only plan on having a FOWLR tank and no inverts.

Otherwise, absolutely not.

 

[Terri Caton]

Thanks!
I would mind doing TTM, but I am not sure if I knew exactly the diseases I am dealing with.

I have these 4 options below.
What would be the forum members opinion to safely and efficiently treat ich/velvet and other diseases the fishes might have?

1. TTM with Prazipro
2. Cupramine
3. CopperSafe
4. Cloriquine Phosphate

Would someone be able to start a poll with this questions?

What you can use depends on the type of fish. Some fish do not handle certain meds as well as others. Pretty sure TTM with Prazipro is safe for all.

 

[Colorado_Dude]

Thanks you all for sharing your experiences and suggestions.

After countless hours of reading I decided to take the Chelated Copper route, since most of my fishes are not too sensitive to it. Increasing the dose of Copper Power 0.3ml/G every day and using Hanna meter.

 

[Jeeperz]

If I'm not mistaken, ttm only works with ich, not velvet. So you have to know what you are dealing with.

 

[Malifry97]

I’d say no...I would by a LARGE Rubbermaid bin a heater, a HOB filter, and a power head...you could also get a brute trash can instead of the bin...this would be WAY cheaper then getting a glass tank...welcome to R2R as well!