LOL Zalic, I see you have been reading my posts and maybe my book. I did use Clorox (in my book) in the 70s and a few times much later but not directly in my tank. I used to collect sea water from the East River just as it passed Manhattan near here.
The water was and is filthy and I doubt a parasite would live in it but I couldn't get ASW then so I used that. My bible was "The Salt Water Aquarium in the Home" by Robert Straughn and he advised it. The very first squid eggs were hatched out in that Clorox treated water.
And as I also said in my book I used it once in 1971 a few months after I started my tank to eliminate bristle worms and ich. I removed the fish of course.
That was 50 years ago, way before I learned how to keep healthy fish but if I somehow came across a tank full of scurvy water where everything died of ich or Bubonic Plague, Iwould probably use Clorox again. It's not a secret.
“All newcomers to this hobby should quarantine everything, even rocks. If I started a new tank tomorrow with new water and gravel, I would definitely have to quarantine. It takes time, sometimes years, for a tank to become mature and fully cycled.” - Paul B. (ReefKeeping Magazine)
That is also a quote from my book and it deals with starting a new tank with new rock and water as I posted in my post above.
outside of your fire clown that is 27yrs old+ (it’s ages varies a little by forum) how old are the rest of your fish?
Yes it does vary because I don't keep logs any more and I forgot when I got that fish but I remember getting her at a LFS that went out of business about 30 years ago so thats how I come to her age. I also have old film pictures of her so I know it was before digital camera's.
Here she is on the very left of the picture which was taken on film. But I don't know when. Maybe the fish is 40. I don't remember.
Yes, they died (I think, I haven't seen them yet but I am still looking) but they were not really my fish yet. I just threw them in my tank and didn't see them for more than 10 seconds. Inever said sick fish will magically get cured when I put them in my tank. But I welcome the new parasites.
The part about me starting the tank in 1971 when no one else had a salt water tank, what is wrong with that? Do you know anyone with a tank from before that? I know in Germany the hobby started earlier because I speak on the history of the hobby which you can Google. I would have a hard time doing that. But I'm old.
Paul - how many times have you had a total death of all your fish or close to it? As you can see from some of the quotes above, you’ve advocated quarantine for new tanks this century. You’ve advocated the use of bleach much more recently than 35 years ago. (Within the last 10 yrs). You even said that if it weren’t for bleach, you would have quit the hobby.
I have never had a total or even partial crash of my tank from disease but oddly enough I did have one from Clorox.
(I think that is also in my book so it would be much easier if you just copied the entire book because none of this is a secret)
I mention many times that only "Regular" Clorox must be used. I once collected water in New York and treated it using "New Fresh Scent Clorox" Then eliminated the chlorine like I advocate. As soon as I put in that water my fish started to jump out. I lost many of them including this Aprox. 10 year old male mandarin (in my book) and an 18 year old cusk eel. That clownfish where we are debating her age went through that and lived. I didn't lose all the fish and I don't think I lost any corals. But never to disease except in 1971 or 72 I may have lost a lot of fish. I don't remember.
So I told you about the bleach and the quarantine of new tanks with new rock and water. Again, nothing new asI wrote all about it and if "Smirkish" reads my book, she can report if I actually said that.
How do you add new fish then and keep them alive? Via the quarantine method you advocated above for all new reefers?
I normally don't buy fish sick enough that they die in a few hours and right in my book it says, "This book is not for Noobs". Noobs have a whole different set of problems to deal with and the majority of my posts are not for them.
I say it all the time.
The vast majority of my fish go on to live out their life to either jump out or die of old age.
This was one of my Watchman gobies dying of old age af about 10. I posted pictures of her as a baby fish, adolescent, with her eggs and dying here.
Most of the time I buy a fish and check it out to see if it looks somewhat healthy although a spot or two wouldn't not let me buy it. Those cardinals I got last week I didn't even look at as I should have. I posted a picture of one of them last week but I can't find it now. It was a banded cardinal and I don't see them often. It is also not the type of fish I was looking for because cardinals are a very common and cheap fish. I walked away and was talking to a customer and told the guy I will take them. I looked at them when I got home and saw that they were pretty sick and didn't think they would live long. I don't have any hospital tank or medications so I put them in.
In that same store a couple of weeks before I asked the guy (who has been in business for 50 years) to catch me a pair of Ruby Red dragonettes. I got home to fine I have two females. As you can see, I don't put to much time into buying fish especially if they are not the fish I want. The ruby reds are doing fine and now I will look for two males.
By the way, those cardinals may still be alive. My tank is all caves and hiding places. That 18 year old cusk eel I lost I only saw avery few times and only at night accidentally with a flashlight.
Can you define “old healthy tank”? Also, Lasse and Les both use 24/7 h202 dosing (a known parasite control).
Yes, to me a healthy tank is an eco system where the fish more or less take care of themselves with no extraneous help from me in the form of medications or quarantine. They all either spawn or at least fill with eggs, never get sick and die of old age and never a communicable disease. I can't speak about Lasse, Atoll,SubSea or Les on how they maintain their tanks. You have to ask them as I have never seen their tanks except on here. I think they also use an oxidator but I think that makes oxygen and I also think, but I am not sure the peroxide is for water conditions just like I used o use ozone for. But if you believe using h202 will give you a healthy, disease free tank, do that.
You even said that if it weren’t for bleach, you would have quit the hobby.
Thats right because of what I said. I used what water I could get (50 years ago) and it was scurvy containing way to much organic matter to keep anything alive so I used it and the rest is history. I have not used bleach in longer than I can remember but I am sure you found somewhere in my book where I used it for something. Actually just yesterday I soaked one of my powerheads in it.
you have engaged in aggressive parasite control, and you have suffered near total losses of your fish on multiple occasions in the last 25yrs.
When did I use any parasite control or lose fish to anything except that bleach accident in the last 25 or even 45 years? I don't remember that but I may have to re read my book.
But I bring up your past, and recent comments because many new reefers try to emulate your method and it’s important for them to have the whole picture.
Smirkish is going to read my book so if she likes, she will know my method. My many quotes are often mis quoted on these forums and most people get the wrong idea about how I feel about quarantine. Contrary to popular belief I am not opposed to quarantine as most people quote me as saying. You yourself found it in my book where I advocate some quarantine and I think it has a place in the hobby.
I am against "long" quarantining like 70 days or so and the use of cautionary medication for a long time.
As you said, in my book I advocate only 10 dys quarantine in copper for a completely new tank with "dry rock".
I am against putting fish, either quarantined or not into a tank that is not set up correctly with the correct hiding places and what I consider correct food which is natural food with bacteria in it. I am also against a small bare quarantine tank with stark white PVC fittings in it.
That is the only time I would quarantine. (a new tank with dry rock) Of course if I got a fish full of parasites that I get sometimes for free I can and will cure it if I have time. I try not to do that now because since I moved I don't have any spare tank but I did post a few years about a small copperband I got full of parasites. (also in my book) I treated it in copper while using a diatom filter and after a few days, maybe 10, I forgot I put it in my reef. She was fine but my 10 year old copperband didn't like her and chased her all over the place until I caught her and gave him away. All documented.
I also posted and put on a video of 3 shrimpfish I added full of ich. One died but the others lived quite a while until I couldn't keep up with brine shrimp.
You can see one of them here near the end of this short video.
Everything I say I can back up or you can easily read about it as you seem to have done.
