Is Reefing Dying?

[2Wheelsonly]

I feel like this hobby is growing, the technology advancements are going through the roof and they wouldn’t be doing that if folks were not buying.

The thing is, this hobby has always been difficult to get into. When people need to cut back on spending they often look to cut hobbies; this is a very expensive one so it’s normal to see a lot of folks getting out. It takes a lot of hard work, trial and error and passion to stick it out.

Just look how many jet skis, boats, motorcycles and atvs are constantly for sale. People invest in them and realize they are not as easy as they look. The first time I went down on my motorcycle I sat in a puddle with my leg split in two and thoughts went racing through my head like “why the hell am I doing this”. When you throw thousands of dollars in a reef only to have it all vanish over night due to a crash you tend to have those same thoughts.

Just like my motorbike habit I stick it out because I have an extreme passion to make it work. Yes like all humans we tend to wonder if it’s worth it at times but it all depends how much importance you place on maintaining hobbies. For your average person they just want to eat, sleep, work and raise kids.

This is why when I see other reefers there is this assumed respect that we both have that same level of passion to stick it out.

The hobby is just rare, if anything I feel it’s growing with the new technology that help new hobbyists thrive without deep rooted knowledge of salt water environments.

 

[MnFish1]

I agree this is a part of it. The LFS have taken a massive hit after the great recession and never recovered while the switch to online shopping continues to kill them. There is nothing like staring at a vibrant colorful reef tank in person to bring new people into the hobby. Coming back to the hobby a few months ago after a few years off it does feel like to me that the hobby is on the decline. I think this is due to several factors:

• Fish parasites and disease. Based on the poll here recently and from my own experience managing LFS, people don't QT and either get lucky or lose a lot of fish either at once or over time. They will only go through so much fish loss before they throw in the towel.
• Cost. It's an incredibly expensive hobby compared to freshwater or keeping other pets like reptiles (last reptile show I went to in Los Angeles was about triple the size if not more than the most recent Reef-A-Palooza). From equipment to livestock the customer is getting price gouged from all sides. The reefing industry is incredibly greedy and runs on a huge margin compared to other industries.
• Steep learning curve. It takes a basic understanding of water chemistry coupled with regular water testing to maintain a reef long term. At the very least you would have to test specific gravity, calc, alk, ph? Either way, this is just more than most people are willing and able to do consistently and accurately. People on this forum, are moderate to advanced hobbyists or on their to way to becoming one and are already above and beyond the average hobbyist out there. So not only is there a good amount of reading required, it also has to be put into practice on a regular basis and this is considered "too much work" for the average Joe.
• The death of the use of Live Rock. Live rock was literally the key that allowed people to successfully keep more difficult coral species in captivity. Some businesses made a big marketing push toward artificial rock and dead rock while the live rock businesses stayed mostly silent while the trend was shifted. I think this was a huge blow to the LFS and to the hobby. Live rock was a popular and profitable product for the LFS to sell. The margin on artificial or dead rock was much smaller and yet the retail price remained the same or higher. It is a bad deal for the LFS and for the hobbyist. Besides that, a reef tank started with dead rock or fake rock has less margin of error and takes much much longer to mature into a thriving ecosystem, this leads to more problems like: algae, dinos, tank crashes, coral losses. A tank started with dead rock will most likely never have even a fraction of the diversity of micro organisms and other fauna that make up a thriving reef.
• The elitist and clique-ish nature of people in the reefing community. We all know R2R is the nice, positive and constructive forum so this doesn't apply here. But what I have observed locally and elsewhere across the web is a different story. At the reptile show I mentioned earlier, people were happy, friendly, and talked my ear off. Both other hobbyists and vendors. I'm not a particularly outgoing person and this is welcome and pleasant for me. At MAX or Reef-A-Palooza no one talks, no one is friendly, people that know each other hang out and it's a very clique-ish scene. The vendors are not outgoing and friendly it's very much just a job for them.
• Hobbyists treating it as a business and not a hobby. Maybe more of an issue here in L.A. but we've got a lot of hobbyists who constantly post FS threads charging full retail for their frags. Many people treat the hobby as a business investment that they want to see a financial return on. One would think everyone would be trading and giving away corals but instead they see a brush of the hand that accidentally broke a piece off a colony as an opportunity for profit. I recently bought a SPS frag from a local hobbyist. He told me that if anything happened to it, he'd replace it. When the coral ended up dying within a few days I took him up on the offer. He asked for a pic for proof and asked about my water and husbandry before making good on his promise. That is not a friendly thing between hobbyists and peers, that is a business transaction. I'm at the point now where I might as well not deal with any local hobbyists and just buy all corals online because the price and experience is nearly identical and I don't have to drive far.

I’m just glad I live close enough to bulk reef supply

 

[Opus]

Of course reefing isn’t dying. If anything it’s brought more people into hobby but overall is still less than 1% of all pet owners. And as far as corals go they are not that expensive like they used to be cause now most of it is fragged and aquacultured. Yes some new and popular pieces can be really high but they all seem to come down in price overtime anyway. And corals are way easier to keep than they used to be cause they have been fragged over and over throughout the years and I believe they have adapted to aquarium parameters where years ago almost all corals were wild caught. And the people that leave the hobby in a short time are not true hobbyist anyway. A lot of people seen finding Nemo and finding dory with there kids so they setup a saltwater tank and then realize “oh wow this is way more complicated then I thought” and then leave. A person who wants to really learn will be dedicated. Period.

So you think frags are a lot cheaper than coral colonies used to be? I remember paying around $75 for elegances that had a base of a foot or more. You could get rocks covered in mushrooms or palys for $20 to $30. Though not a coral, you could get a derasa clam $20 or a maxima for $30. ORA used to basically give misbar clowns to the stores for free because "there was no market" for them. Now they are a designer clown!

 

[Tommy Ray Oakley]

The Hobbie is just like any other people see it and think it's cool and want to do it and then they don't realize the work and time or get bad advise. But on the other hand there are a few that stay and develop a real passion. I got back in about ten years ago and me being in the military hasn't made it easy. I have moved my 260 and live stock 5 time's and thousands of miles. Over the last few years. I am finally coming to a end in my career and have moved it for the last time. At one time I had 8 different tanks going. But to answer your s question I don't think it is dieing but I do think like most hobbies it runs in cycles

 

[Rakie]

Lack of stores. A few years ago, we had 5 saltwater stores. No we 1, sort of. A couple of tanks for maintenance mainly.
Hard to start a newbie in the hobby with no place to go

Why is lack of stores a bad thing? Almost nobody goes to stores because in general, *most* of them are shady (Note my location, odds are I have 10 reef shops for every 1 you guys have in your city). Walk in and find crazy overpriced coral that are usually in weak health. Staff who doesn't know what they're doing. 200%+ Markup on dry goods with zero returns regardless of anything..

I learned from a very young age, fish shops are sleazy in general. Thankfully, the sleazy ones are struggling to stay alive, and the ones worth going to are still kicking. (In my area at least).

In the land of LFS, only the good survive.

 

[SMB]

I've had big tanks, then bigger ones, all at a time when protein skimmers were new. Maintenance got to be an issue and I slowly downsized. Now for the past two years I have worked with just a 45 gal cube. It's great, the most fun I've had with SW tanks.
About 60-90 minutes of maintenance on Sunday morning plus feeding. The six fish are nothing special but fun to watch and all thriving. The corals by most standards are pretty pedestrian but they grow (some better than others!) to the point where I can harvest them and trade for newer species.
Things that don't grow I don't worry about, I just let something else overgrow it. A very Darwinian collection!. When my Tailspot Blenny ate my Chalice, I didn't freak out because it wasn't that expensive a meal, and I didn't get rid of the Tailspot.
The tank is a joy to watch and learn from. Perhaps if your tank is getting you down, try and simplify, it is supposed to be a hobby not a job. Having said that there are lots of folks who really enjoy the mechanics of the hobby and don't mind complex setups.

 

[Newb73]

I've had big tanks, then bigger ones, all at a time when protein skimmers were new. Maintenance got to be an issue and I slowly downsized. Now for the past two years I have worked with just a 45 gal cube. It's great, the most fun I've had with SW tanks.
About 60-90 minutes of maintenance on Sunday morning plus feeding. The six fish are nothing special but fun to watch and all thriving. The corals by most standards are pretty pedestrian but they grow (some better than others!) to the point where I can harvest them and trade for newer species.
Things that don't grow I don't worry about, I just let something else overgrow it. A very Darwinian collection!. When my Tailspot Blenny ate my Chalice, I didn't freak out because it wasn't that expensive a meal, and I didn't get rid of the Tailspot.
The tank is a joy to watch and learn from. Perhaps if your tank is getting you down, try and simplify, it is supposed to be a hobby not a job. Having said that there are lots of folks who really enjoy the mechanics of the hobby and don't mind complex setups.

I would get bored if it didnt require me to put in several hours a week of work.

I don't want "easy", i want a full on user interactive hobby/science lab/learning experience.....

 

[pingzing47]

Welk my guess is folks leave because they have no patience and think it should be perfect day one. As for costs of corals, if you pay big bucks you better know your reef is right for it.
I am about ready to trim back my sps. Usualky I take to lfs to swap.

 

[Luis Spinola]

My son and I began with saltwater fish when he was in junior high school almost six years ago... I never had a single fish but what really got us into the hobby was watching salt water tanks and how awesome their inhabitants looked...at the beginning we got a bit frustrated because the lfs just wanted to sell us the most expensive equipment and due to our lack of experience, many times we got scammed, most of our fish died because of ich and to tell the truth, the people at the lfs did not bother to help, we did a lot of research to continue with the few fish that survived and began buying corals, we don't have many but the ones we have cared of are thriving, we still love our reef tank but what really get us dissapointed are the prices that many greedy people ask for little frags, how did this happen? They are killing the hobbie, few people risk to have a saltwater tank when they know about the so expensive prices for equipment, fish and corals...and of course: the lack of interest of some lfs to really help new people get into the hobbie, many of them just are interested on making money and don't really care about hobbyists keeping healthy specimens.

 

[Brogratz]

I don't feel like it's dying, I am relatively new to the hobby. And I know more people that just started and are getting into it. I worry less about the cost of corals, because all corals eventually come down in price. Hardware never comes down in price, we spend far more on that. And it's not like a we can wait and hope for them to be on sale. But that 1/2" of homewrecker will continue to come down in price as more people get it. You get to choose when you are willing to buy in.

 

[Luis Spinola]

My son and I began with saltwater fish when he was in junior high school almost six years ago... I never had a single fish but what really got us into the hobby was watching salt water tanks and how awesome their inhabitants looked...at the beginning we got a bit frustrated because the lfs just wanted to sell us the most expensive equipment and due to our lack of experience, many times we got scammed, most of our fish died because of ich and to tell the truth, the people at the lfs did not bother to help, we did a lot of research to continue with the few fish that survived and began buying corals, we don't have many but the ones we have cared of are thriving, we still love our reef tank but what really get us disappointed are the prices that many greedy people ask for little frags, how did this happen? They are killing the hobby, few people risk to have a saltwater tank when they know about the so expensive prices for equipment, fish and corals...and of course: the lack of interest of some lfs to really help new people get into the hobby, many of them are just interested on making money and don't really care about hobbyists keeping healthy specimens.

 

[Wackzood1]

I am new to reefing ( tank has been up for 11 weeks ). I have had soooo many questions, and most of the time I get 20 different answers to each of them. Sometimes none of the answers I get even answer my question. I look forward to the challenges ahead, but a part of me is less then excited to experience my next big problem. I could see someone hitting the one year mark and bailing because they are tired of the unknown or unexpected. With most LFS wanting to make a sale to keep their doors open, I have found their advice to only cost me money with little to no results or even negative ones. I know I would be a lot more confident if I had a local, long-term reefer that I could call up and say "Hey could you come give me a hand with X,Yand Z, and I will buy pizza and beer". If your interest is to help the hobby thrive and grow, a great way to help is posting advise here/ support your local reef clubs, and help the new guys like myself settle in with a helping hand based on your experience.

 

[Kravchak]

I’ve been keeping reef tanks since the late 70s
Used to have tanks in every room
Kept everything from blue ring octopus to emperors from juvenile to full adult

I took my last tank down a year ago and sold most everything, I miss it once in a while but I think I am out

 

[Iowareefer]

Hey guys and gals, I'm new around here, but here is my experience, I walked into our LFS, and started drooling over the salt water fish. Well it just so happens that a guy had gotten out of the hobby, and the LFS owner had a 150g tank that was fowlr, I ended up buying it, and got all the headaches that came with a neglected system, and on top of that, the overflow on this tank was junk, 2, 1 inch lines, and no safety. The reason I got out was because I drove over the road and my girlfriend gave me the ultimatum, me or that tank, well, we're married now so you know how that went, I had the tank home, and set up, with livestock in it within 2 weeks, the LFS owner kept all the rock alive, and all of the fish survived. But I had major algae issues.

To make this go a little quicker, fast forward 3 years and it's my wife that wants it this time, she misses it, and we will have corals this time as well, but I have had the tank sitting in my house for three weeks, and haven't even built the stand yet, my problem the first time was lack of patience, the main reason the first tank went is because my wife had a major overflow, while I was OTR trucking, I'm home everyday now, and we are spending way too much to protect ourselves from the headaches, will it pay off? I have no idea, but if anyone comes into this hobby thinking it's easy, they're crazy, but the benefits of it are truly amazing, and worth every headache and heartache.

I think from what I see on forums and YouTube, its actually gaining traction, there is a lot of technology helping that out as well, this is just my opinion!!

 

[rayn]

I think it comes with the seasons. At least in my area it does. Summer comes and people want to be outside. Fall/winter comes and they want to be inside with their tanks.

I've had the MTS for a while. Usually they are filled, but right now I'm still in the planning stage. Been there for almost over a year now. I still have a nano though, but it's kinda on auto pilot. Point is, sometimes it doesn't die, but needs a break to come back bigger and better then before.

 

[Betty1964]

Well, I can't speak for anyone else but if I have to choose between spending time with my precious grandchildren or cleaning my tank, the grandkids will win hands down every single time. If I have to choose between fixing our farm fences or buying fish stuff, the fences have to come first. Sometimes my tank gets very little attention: we are prepping our farm for winter in the midwest and reefing is just not as big of a priority as making sure our family is secure for the season.

 

[Forsaken77]

I totally feel the same way! My husband thinks I am nuts but I really enjoy "working" on my tank. I find it cathartic, even if it is scraping off a chunk of bubble algae! ;Dead

Live anywhere near NY? I have plenty of tank work for you to enjoy. It'll be like a day at the amusement park for ya . I won't even charge admission.

 

[Servillius]

Reefing is booming. There has never been this level of variety, technology, and participation. People aren’t on the forums because, with all due respect, forums are dying. There are other outlets, resources, etc.

People are not selling $800 frags to a bunch of folks who just left the hobby. This is still a difficult pastime, but I know people who set up reef tanks and annoyed me for not asking advice until I realized they didn’t need it and were doing just fine. So I started trading them frags instead!

 

[MnFish1]

The death of the use of Live Rock. Live rock was literally the key that allowed people to successfully keep more difficult coral species in captivity.

I agree that the use of porous rock that contained huge amounts of denitrifying bacteria greatly advanced the ability to keep a low-nitrate tank. There is a lot of 'speculation' as to the other stuff on 'live rock' that was supposedly beneficial - but I'm not sure thats true - and if you buy a little live rock you can build up the benefits.

The reason (I thought) that people changed from live rock to 'dead rock' was 1)Difficulty in the curing process, 2). Hitchhikers, 3) Cost, 4) Dead rock seemed to work as well if used properly. I do not understand the logic of saying dead rock is causing a problem - unless you can definitively state what the 'magic ingredient' in Live rock is that is causing the dramatic benefit. IMHO using cured coral rock with everything 'killed' by whatever method - is the equivalent of 'live rock' that has been cured wet.

If by 'dead rock' you are talking about 'man-made' rock of various substances, Im not sure these are as successful as natural rock

 

[Gungo]

Dying in your social circle maybe? Here in the Dominican Republic the hobby its just starting... We are still on Xenias, and LPS addiction.. maybe 2 or 3 people in the hole country has a dominant SPS tank. I think most of the reefing people don't have the time to be active enough to check and post on forums daily. I'm starting to think that reef keeping is a hobby and being active on forums is another different, but related hobby.. None of my friends check any reefing forum or even have an account, but they still love the hobby!