Is steady state pH healthy for a reef?

[Subsea]

Musings from the “Lazy Boy” Recliner: @Dan_P @Scrubber_steve @Lasse

For certain, I march to a differrent drummer, I listen to nature. I emulate what works. Bacteria, algae and sponges have had billions of years to work out the details. They are the biofiltration platform of my 25 year old Jaubert Plenum system.

After 47 years of reefkeeping, I see no merit in steady state pH in our reef tanks. The coral reefs in the world fluctuate between 8.2 and 7.8 pH. I see no point to changing the natural cycle of things.

I use aroggonite solubility as a passive buffer management system.

 

[mr9iron]

I think there are certainly optimal levels for calcification but my tanks ph runs even lower due to being in the basement and elevated CO2 levels.

 

[Subsea]

I think there are certainly optimal levels for calcification but my tanks ph runs even lower due to being in the basement and elevated CO2 levels.

Obviously, SPS corals grow in the wild with the fluctuating pH levels I mentioned. Maximizing calcification has never been a priority in my reef husbandry. I am not in a race.

Calcification has never been a concern in my mixed garden lagoon tanks.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/2...m-on-top-with-30g-ecosystem-mud-macro.421526/


https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wet-salty-for-christmas-2017.428100/

 

[Subsea]

I think there are certainly optimal levels for calcification but my tanks ph runs even lower due to being in the basement and elevated CO2 levels.

Is lower pH an issue for you? If so, a co2 scrubber may be what you need.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-...Mamt9Tx5S0pnlkkmdBtvWUNhsWrKrzixoCGGwQAvD_BwE

 

[Dan_P]

Patrick, in your system what type of pH swings does it experience? Can you tell whether your system lost any aragonite sand from buffering, i.e., dissolving? Finally, are you adding silicates for the benefit of your sponges? Pondering your wisdom in my recliner. Dan

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Musings from the “Lazy Boy” Recliner: @Dan_P @Scrubber_steve @Lasse

For certain, I march to a differrent drummer, I listen to nature. I emulate what works. Bacteria, algae and sponges have had billions of years to work out the details. They are the biofiltration platform of my 25 year old Jaubert Plenum system.

After 47 years of reefkeeping, I see no merit in steady state pH in our reef tanks. The coral reefs in the world fluctuate between 8.2 and 7.8 pH. I see no point to changing the natural cycle of things.

I use aroggonite solubility as a passive buffer management system.

Just saying if ph issue, if possible station air pump outside, next still have issues. Set up refugium 100 gallon tank, add some cheoto, add more algae. Till ph is where you like. Some people have fill refugium full of it. I know people problem just what your experiencing. Did these two things. Big help. Subsea is right, always right.

 

[Subsea]

Just saying if ph issue, if possible station air pump outside, next still have issues. Set up refugium 100 gallon tank, add some cheoto, add more algae. Till ph is where you like. Some people have fill refugium full of it. I know people problem just what your experiencing. Did these two things. Big help. Subsea is right, always right.

Only this week, I saw five videos on algae filtration produced by BRSTV. In one test with Chaetomorphy refugium, a 25G refugium produced a pH of 8.8 with a flow rate of 250 GPHr. In effect, the co2 consumption by macro algae was greater than the rate of co2 entering the tank water. This was accomplished with a $1200 light fixture at 1700 PAR. I suspect the same results could be done with a Chaeto reactor wrapped with a led string light for less than $200.

 

[Subsea]

Patrick, in your system what type of pH swings does it experience? Can you tell whether your system lost any aragonite sand from buffering, i.e., dissolving? Finally, are you adding silicates for the benefit of your sponges? Pondering your wisdom in my recliner. Dan

Thirty years ago, when I measured those things, my system followed natural pH swings of 8.2 to 7.8. Over the years, I noted some loss of substrate which I attributed to alkalinity buffering and aroggonite solubility.

All of my system are saturated with silicates. I use ground water and add with no treatment to tanks to make up for evaporation. The TDS of my ground water is 950 ppm. Very close to lime water/kalk. As it turns out, the Upper Trinity Aquifer at 1000’ deep was the bottom of a shallow inland sea which was dominated with diatoms & sponges. So, all of my systems are saturated with silicates. I have an abundance of sponges & coralline algae.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Thirty years ago, when I measured those things, my system followed natural pH swings of 8.2 to 7.8. Over the years, I noted some loss of substrate which I attributed to alkalinity buffering and aroggonite solubility.

All of my system are saturated with silicates. I use ground water and add to tanks to make up for evaporation. The TDS of my ground waiter is 950 ppm. Very close to lime water/kalk. As it turns out, the Upper Trinity Aquifer at 1000’ deep was the bottom of a shallow inland sea which was dominated with diatoms & sponges. So, all of my systems are saturated with silicates. I have an abundance of sponges & coralline algae.

Just reminded me, I have a well, has water. You gave me some ideas

 

[Subsea]

Just reminded me, I have a well, has water. You gave me some ideas

I actually use my ground water as a geothermal heat exchanger on outside mariculture in the winter. Water comes up at 78 degrees. Electrical cost to pump 1000G is $0.28.

 

[Subsea]

Yesterday @AlgaeBarn posted this on algae forum:

“I'm going to agree with Subsea on this. With the chaeto we grow, we do not keep it under 24 hour lighting. We grow under 100% indoor lighting and we have measured the rate of photosynthesis. It is faster with a dark period.“

“We really believe in overlapping the day and night cycle for a refugium!“

 

[ca1ore]

Stopped fussing over pH levels a long time ago. My system varies between a low of about 7.6 (Summer nights) to a high of about 8.1 (Winter days). I do run a reverse lit ATS and chaeto fuge, and dose kalk. Running skimmer to fresh air or CO2 scrubber makes little different in my system (too much water sitting in CO2 laden air for the skimmer to overcome).

 

[Dan_P]

Yesterday @AlgaeBarn posted this on algae forum:

“I'm going to agree with Subsea on this. With the chaeto we grow, we do not keep it under 24 hour lighting. We grow under 100% indoor lighting and we have measured the rate of photosynthesis. It is faster with a dark period.“

“We really believe in overlapping the day and night cycle for a refugium!“

Cool.

I recall reading that some macro algae must have dark period of a certain duration but there are others that don’t (I assume micro alga grown for oil is illuminared 24 hours per day). I guess if you don’t have the energy to investigate the matter, follow nature and have a dark period.

 

[AlgaeBarn]

Cool.

I recall reading that some macro algae must have dark period of a certain duration but there are others that don’t (I assume micro alga grown for oil is illuminared 24 hours per day). I guess if you don’t have the energy to investigate the matter, follow nature and have a dark period.

@Dan_P most macroalgae should have a dark period. Certain types of macroalgae, such as calerpa, are put under 24/7 lighting to minimize the likelihood of it going sexual.

Microalgae are often illuminated for 24 hours per day because they are exposed to a mutual self-shading effect. The algae cells in front of the light can block a lot of photons that would hit an algae cell behind it. This gives it time to undergo its other metabolic processes.

 

[AlgaeBarn]

Stopped fussing over pH levels a long time ago. My system varies between a low of about 7.6 (Summer nights) to a high of about 8.1 (Winter days). I do run a reverse lit ATS and chaeto fuge, and dose kalk. Running skimmer to fresh air or CO2 scrubber makes little different in my system (too much water sitting in CO2 laden air for the skimmer to overcome).

I don't believe in chasing pH. It's a very hard thing to do with such a complex system such as a reef tank. What I do believe in is to implement systems that will keep pH more stable (such as a reverse lit refugium, I don't personally have much experience dosing Kalk).

 

[Subsea]

@Dan_P most macroalgae should have a dark period. Certain types of macroalgae, such as calerpa, are put under 24/7 lighting to minimize the likelihood of it going sexual.

Microalgae are often illuminated for 24 hours per day because they are exposed to a mutual self-shading effect. The algae cells in front of the light can block a lot of photons that would hit an algae cell behind it. This gives it time to undergo its other metabolic processes.

Interesting that you bring that up about phytoplankton. In research conducted in article circle during 24 hour light period, micro algae growth showed no decrease in rate of growth. Until you mentioned light blocking ability of algae culture due to density, I could not make sense of that data.

 

[ca1ore]

I don't personally have much experience dosing Kalk.

It can be quite useful in mitigating pH swings. I run my ATO through a kalk reactor, so it's more useful in the less humid months.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

It can be quite useful in mitigating pH swings. I run my ATO through a kalk reactor, so it's more useful in the less humid months.

If you start dosing, then you'll have to keep an eye on alkilinity, magnesium , etc...

 

[Subsea]

@Dan_P most macroalgae should have a dark period. Certain types of macroalgae, such as calerpa, are put under 24/7 lighting to minimize the likelihood of it going sexual.

Microalgae are often illuminated for 24 hours per day because they are exposed to a mutual self-shading effect. The algae cells in front of the light can block a lot of photons that would hit an algae cell behind it. This gives it time to undergo its other metabolic processes.

Macro tumble culture produces shading effect as well. Most outdoor mariculture uses 40% shade cloth over greenhouse.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

most macroalgae should have a dark period.

I looked into this a bit recently.
What information do you base your conclusion on?