Is this Flukes? Blue Tang

Elliott ll

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I have a blue tang thats been in copper power at 2.25-2.45ppm for last 8 days. She has not been doing well so I performed a FW dip. Now I see tons of little white specks under her skin. Any ideas what this is?

in1.jpg in2.jpg in3.jpg out1.jpg out2.jpg
 
When you did the freshwater dip, did you use a black container so you could see if any flukes came off during the process? If your fish has flukes you'll definitely see them drop off (not necessarily all of them, but a good portion).
 
When you did the freshwater dip, did you use a black container so you could see if any flukes came off during the process? If your fish has flukes you'll definitely see them drop off (not necessarily all of them, but a good portion).
No unfortunately I did not. I did use a blacklight and magnify glass to look as best as possible. I didn't see any flukes coming off. I did witness a massive number of round white dots appear. If you look at the 4th picture you can see a big cluster near her black stripe.
 
I'm waiting for his reply to this issue on another thread. But the other thread was off topic and wanted to create a relevant thread to potentially help others in the same situation. @Jay Hemdal please comment here vs the other thread if you see this!
 
I'm waiting for his reply to this issue on another thread. But the other thread was off topic and wanted to create a relevant thread to potentially help others in the same situation. @Jay Hemdal please comment here vs the other thread if you see this!
What was the timing between the FW dip and the spots showing up? I need to try ensure it was cause and effect and not coincidental.
Jay
 
What was the timing between the FW dip and the spots showing up? I need to try ensure it was cause and effect and not coincidental.
Jay
Before putting the tang into the FW dip I did not see these white spots. What I did see were a few "cone like" white spots on her dorsal fin, which I believe were mucus plugs and black spots, which I believe was scarring from the ich that I had been treating for with copper. About a minute into FW dip they started appearing more and more. Once I hit 5 minutes she had them everywhere and I snapped the photos.

When I put her back into the QT tank after the dip she seems to react very badly and wanted to just float sideways on the bottom. She is now treading water behind her normal rock home and seems much better but crazy stressed out. The white spots are not as visible as they were in the FW dip or right after reintroducing to QT.
 
Before putting the tang into the FW dip I did not see these white spots. What I did see were a few "cone like" white spots on her dorsal fin, which I believe were mucus plugs and black spots, which I believe was scarring from the ich that I had been treating for with copper. About a minute into FW dip they started appearing more and more. Once I hit 5 minutes she had them everywhere and I snapped the photos.

When I put her back into the QT tank after the dip she seems to react very badly and wanted to just float sideways on the bottom. She is now treading water behind her normal rock home and seems much better but crazy stressed out. The white spots are not as visible as they were in the FW dip or right after reintroducing to QT.
Hepatus tangs act all nuts when given a FW dip. Sometimes it is fake, other times it is true stress, depends on the condition of the fish going into it. I've had them literally stop breathing....and then be fine afterwards.

I'm not sure what to tell you at this point...I guess let me know how the fish is tomorrow, and if you've decided on an additional treatment.

Jay
 
Hepatus tangs act all nuts when given a FW dip. Sometimes it is fake, other times it is true stress, depends on the condition of the fish going into it. I've had them literally stop breathing....and then be fine afterwards.

I'm not sure what to tell you at this point...I guess let me know how the fish is tomorrow, and if you've decided on an additional treatment.

Jay
Well, I think I can already tell you that she's faking it from FW dip... so I'll be pondering on which route to go over the night I guess. As soon as I dropped in some Hikari Seaweed Extreme she began eating like a pig and acting normal. What I still don't understand is the massive number of round white spots that appeared during the FW dip.

Right now my plan is to pull her from copper and begin Prazipro treatment in the morning separate from other tanks. What is the best plan for prazi? Dose 7 days apart or 24 hours with WC between doses? After the Prazipro treatment, I will then have to decide if I want to return to copper or put her and only her thru TTM.
 
The fact that it is eating well is very good news indeed.

I normally dose Prazipro 10 days apart, with a 30% water change prior to the second dose (and aerate the tank well).

Another option might be to go with hyposalinity - that will control flukes, turbellarians and ich (but not velvet). Otherwise, yes, you should decide copper or TTM after the prazi.

Jay
 
The fact that it is eating well is very good news indeed.

I normally dose Prazipro 10 days apart, with a 30% water change prior to the second dose (and aerate the tank well).

Another option might be to go with hyposalinity - that will control flukes, turbellarians and ich (but not velvet). Otherwise, yes, you should decide copper or TTM after the prazi.

Jay
I'm going to be using 15 gallon tubs I think for prazi treatment. I have 4 of them and 4 air pumps. Can I do the first dose in one tub, and then transfer to a new tub after 10 days for the second dose? I want to be sure she has ammonia free water.

Being so new I am sacred to attempt hyposalinity. I think if I see a dramatic improvement from the prazi treatment then putting back into copper would be best. If I see little improvement then I will go for TTM.
 
I'm going to be using 15 gallon tubs I think for prazi treatment. I have 4 of them and 4 air pumps. Can I do the first dose in one tub, and then transfer to a new tub after 10 days for the second dose? I want to be sure she has ammonia free water.

Being so new I am sacred to attempt hyposalinity. I think if I see a dramatic improvement from the prazi treatment then putting back into copper would be best. If I see little improvement then I will go for TTM.
I’m not sure exactly what you are planning to do, but I don’t think you will be able to manage ammonia levels in tubs like that. I’ve seen ammonia levels climb to toxic levels in just 24 hours. Is there a reason you can’t dose Prazipro in the tank itself?
Jay
 
I’m not sure exactly what you are planning to do, but I don’t think you will be able to manage ammonia levels in tubs like that. I’ve seen ammonia levels climb to toxic levels in just 24 hours. Is there a reason you can’t dose Prazipro in the tank itself?
Jay
I have several other fish in the QT that are partially through copper treatment for ich and doing great. I figured keeping one tang in a 15 gallon tub for 10 days with dosage #1 of prazi and then transfering to a new 15 gallon tub and dosing with #2 of prazi for 10 days would be good enough to combat any ammonia.

If dosing prazipro in the QT then I would either need to dose on top of copper (increase O2 and prepare for bacterial bloom) or reduce copper to 1.05ppm and then dose prazi? Which would you suggest?
 
I have several other fish in the QT that are partially through copper treatment for ich and doing great. I figured keeping one tang in a 15 gallon tub for 10 days with dosage #1 of prazi and then transfering to a new 15 gallon tub and dosing with #2 of prazi for 10 days would be good enough to combat any ammonia.

If dosing prazipro in the QT then I would either need to dose on top of copper (increase O2 and prepare for bacterial bloom) or reduce copper to 1.05ppm and then dose prazi? Which would you suggest?
Without some sort of biofilter, I don't think you'll be able to manage the ammonia in tubs. In this case, I would reduce the copper, add good aeration to the QT and go that route. Think about it though - the tangs would be out of copper anyway, so would still be at risk.

Jay
 
Without some sort of biofilter, I don't think you'll be able to manage the ammonia in tubs. In this case, I would reduce the copper, add good aeration to the QT and go that route. Think about it though - the tangs would be out of copper anyway, so would still be at risk.

Jay
Okay thank you I am going to go this route then. I wish it were easier to just combine prazipro with copper at full, would make life much easier ha. I will keep you updated on the progress. This morning she seems to be doing very well and looks much better, so I assume the FW dip had an impact and therefore I am able to mostly confirm flukes. Prioritizing flukes treatment is a must now.
 
24 hours into prazipro and she is looking much better. Eating very well. She is still scratching a bit. Will further update after 48 hours.
 
Without some sort of biofilter, I don't think you'll be able to manage the ammonia in tubs. In this case, I would reduce the copper, add good aeration to the QT and go that route. Think about it though - the tangs would be out of copper anyway, so would still be at risk.

Jay
How long into Prazipro treatment would you expect to stop seeing scratching from fish?
 
How long into Prazipro treatment would you expect to stop seeing scratching from fish?
Scratching may actually increase for some time after a dose - the flukes drop off, and that must cause the fish some discomfort. I generally say that the symptoms should abate within 48 to 72 hours. Then, if new flukes hatch and reattach to the fish, the scratching can start up again after a week or so.

So what happens if the scratching just continues? I don't really know. In some cases, it is a case of old Prazipro, or an incorrect dose. Or, there may be an issue of misdiagnosis, for example, the problem could be other worms such as turbellarians, or the issue *could* be caused by little micro-predator copepods. Some fish may scratch due to ich, but I feel that is rare, and if so, there would be ich spots seen. Finally, there is the idea that some fish scratch due to behavioral issues - like how I once had an issue where I scratched my skin, and then got really itchy all over and couldn't stop scratching. My doctor couldn't find any reason for it and it went away eventually....

Jay
 
Scratching may actually increase for some time after a dose - the flukes drop off, and that must cause the fish some discomfort. I generally say that the symptoms should abate within 48 to 72 hours. Then, if new flukes hatch and reattach to the fish, the scratching can start up again after a week or so.

So what happens if the scratching just continues? I don't really know. In some cases, it is a case of old Prazipro, or an incorrect dose. Or, there may be an issue of misdiagnosis, for example, the problem could be other worms such as turbellarians, or the issue *could* be caused by little micro-predator copepods. Some fish may scratch due to ich, but I feel that is rare, and if so, there would be ich spots seen. Finally, there is the idea that some fish scratch due to behavioral issues - like how I once had an issue where I scratched my skin, and then got really itchy all over and couldn't stop scratching. My doctor couldn't find any reason for it and it went away eventually....

Jay
Okay it has only been 48 hours so I plan to continue to watch closely. Hoping by the end of 2nd round the scratching will stop. Expiration is 10/2023 and I have been incredibly careful with dosing. I do know that several fish in my tank had ich. Several fish are also still scratching, including a cleaner wrasse of mine. Time will tell. Will update next week.
 
@Jay Hemdal little off topic question. If you 2 QT tanks running copper with same start dates, both tanks for 30 days. Does moving a fish from one tank to another matter? Wondering if I am able to relocate a fish being picked on to the other tank which is more peaceful.
 

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