Is this Metal Halide worth…

WhatCouldGoWrong71 · Nov 20, 2023

KrisReef said:
Here’s a link to a bulb that will match that ballast

20K SE mh bulb

@KrisReef thanks man. I didn’t realize the pot I stirred up…

jdthomas · Nov 20, 2023

I've spent the last week looking for bulbs. 250watt double ended are available from reefbrite and sps. I've heard and read a lot of bad things about the sps, but I don't know much about the reefbrites.
But those are your options. Hamilton is a no go, phoenix is gone, ushio is gone, radium is gone. It's a wasteland

ronnie · Nov 20, 2023

I’m trying to go back to MH and I’ve found SE bulbs more available than DE options. Trying to source used equipment is the toughest part for me. I don’t want to spend so much money buying new, especially if anything really changes and we lose bulb availability more so than now.

jda · Nov 21, 2023

Hamilton is having the stuff made. That is what it means. They seem to be a bit coy since the supply chain is somewhat unknown and so are the timeframes? I don't expect much for new fixtures, but I expect bulbs in all configurations soon. Even though there is still a large demand for bulbs, don't know if there is for new fixtures.

This is like the 4th time that bulb availability has changed. One time ago, Phoenix 14k and Radium 20k emerged from out of the darkness. A few times ago, it was 6500k getting low in stock and 10k and 14k bulbs appeared out of nowhere. Change is not always bad... and nearly never as bad as what people expect it to be

oreo54 · Nov 21, 2023

jda said:
Hamilton is having the stuff made. That is what it means. They seem to be a bit coy since the supply chain is somewhat unknown and so are the timeframes? I don't expect much for new fixtures, but I expect bulbs in all configurations soon. Even though there is still a large demand for bulbs, don't know if there is for new fixtures.

This is like the 4th time that bulb availability has changed. One time ago, Phoenix 14k and Radium 20k emerged from out of the darkness. A few times ago, it was 6500k getting low in stock and 10k and 14k bulbs appeared out of nowhere. Change is not always bad... and nearly never as bad as what people expect it to be

A large bulb manuf. (Tungsram to GE..back to tungsram) not only disco-ed "legacy bulbs" but then went full belly up a short time later.

The factories will continue to operate,

err.. Nope..

https://dteurope.com/business/tungsram-to-discontinue-traditional-lamp-production/

CEO Joerg Bauer said in a statement that Tungsram's management has been aware since 2018 that demand for traditional lighting products was declining and that change was needed, so the company has consciously started to build new businesses. The effects of the pandemic, the war in Ukraine, skyrocketing energy prices and the shortage of raw materials have all caused significant difficulties for Tungsram.

Vulture capitalists decided to disassemble them.

Tungsram goes into liquidation - Doing Business in Hungary

After the settlement offer was rejected, Tungsram will be liquidated. The company will lay off 750 employees.

doing-business-in-hungary.com

OSRAM is folding up a lot of legacy merc bulbs as well.

My very large guess is this is causing other producers to fill the holes but probably concentrating on "normal" bulb colors. No room to manuf "specialty" colors.

We know the Radium story already.

PeterErc · Nov 21, 2023

YOYOYOReefer said:
Get bent What mis information. Your discussion must missed the vendors I showed all currently have halides in stock. add reef brite plus many more. not hard at all to find ballasts. Maybe jump off the brs is the gospel bandwagon.

How is your mis information working out now? What? You found one 250w DE bulb, and another that drop ships from RB.

While you are at it proving the world wrong, jump on eBay and see how many used 250w ballasts/pendants/fixtures you can find. Type in a google search and see what ya get.

Enjoy your day

jda · Nov 21, 2023

Radium bulb story is ongoing. Radium factory in Germany story is not. Promised that I would not say much, but ask yourself: what I have really been wrong about all of these years? You are smart and can probably figure out what is happening when there is demand and assets of value...

There is no doubt that poorly run companies can go out of business at any time. PFO, CoralVue, etc. come to mind... good products (mostly) and out of business in a boom. As I have said before, a global downturn could make off of this moot, but you are going to see the likes of EcoTech, Kessil, ReefBreeders, etc. have a few casualties too - seen it a few times before.

oreo54 · Nov 21, 2023

jda said:
Radium bulb story is ongoing. Radium factory in Germany story is not. Promised that I would not say much, but ask yourself: what I have really been wrong about all of these years? You are smart and can probably figure out what is happening when there is demand and assets of value...

There is no doubt that poorly run companies can go out of business at any time. PFO, CoralVue, etc. come to mind... good products (mostly) and out of business in a boom. As I have said before, a global downturn could make off of this moot, but you are going to see the likes of EcoTech, Kessil, ReefBreeders, etc. have a few casualties too - seen it a few times before.

Nothing I said implies you are wrong. And nothing I said precludes a bulb renaissance.
It was merely stating a large bulb manuf went belly up and of course most mh portfolios are shrinking.
And it is up to the remaining factories to "make up" stock.

Which takes time. Funny thing regarding Tungsram, they stated they stocked up prior to ending production.. Well that is a finite amount. Which do you thik is more likely.. stocking up on street light bulbs or reef bulbs?

According to the announcement, the company will continue to focus on serving customers as best as possible during the reorganization, primarily from stock. This stock has been consciously built up to meet their contractual obligations over the past year and further steps are being taken on a business unit by business unit basis, and customers will be kept informed of these.

Same w/ Radium. Now NOS.
Which some are now selling for like $150/bulb.

Your head makes what I say more negative than it is meant to be. BUT there are facts.

Now what isn't fact is I do not know nor can I find any numbers on exactly how many MH bulbs they produced on an annual basis s to judge their possible impact. It was speculation. I know t5's were produced under the ge label. And they do (did do) MH's.

150 watt T7 Recessed Single Contact Base 3000K Natural White Metal Halide

150 watt - T7 - Recessed Single Contact (Rx7s) Base - 3,000K - Natural White - Clear - UV Control - ConstantColor - Showbiz | Tungsram Metal Halide HID Light Bulb (Enclosed Fixtures Only)

www.lightbulbs.com

You know, and I wasn't going to do this but it sort of is funny, if you were so sure why are all the "mh gurus" buying cases of MH's when they find them?

jda · Nov 21, 2023

The last show that I was at (after COVID) the guy there said that they estimated that they were up to 300k bulbs sold in the US again. Keep in mind that institutional, public and university sales never really faltered and that the increase was hobbyist engagement. I have no idea if this is even remotely true, but I am one hobbyist and I can use up to 10 bulbs a year... and some institutions change them almost monthly.

I stocked up on Phoenix 14k since PEC has not said a word beyond maybe, they were $40 and I love them. I have not bought any Radiums since I have faith. If I heard more from PEC, I might not have stocked up. Besides, stocking up in this market could just be about cost savings... Radiums were $59 not too long ago, then $79... might be a lot more next year. I also stock up on pumps, food, salt and none of them are going out of business.

oreo54 · Nov 21, 2023

jda said:
The last show that I was at (after COVID) the guy there said that they estimated that they were up to 300k bulbs sold in the US again. Keep in mind that institutional, public and university sales never really faltered and that the increase was hobbyist engagement. I have no idea if this is even remotely true, but I am one hobbyist and I can use up to 10 bulbs a year... and some institutions change them almost monthly.

I stocked up on Phoenix 14k since PEC has not said a word beyond maybe, they were $40 and I love them. I have not bought any Radiums since I have faith. If I heard more from PEC, I might not have stocked up. Besides, stocking up in this market could just be about cost savings... Radiums were $59 not too long ago, then $79... might be a lot more next year. I also stock up on pumps, food, salt and none of them are going out of business.

Yes but you were not the only one.. Besides 1) Doesn't mean institutions et al. didn't follow suite.
2) 300k vs what in past years and what bulbs?

I'm sorry I get the drift but some context is missing. Like I argue when "someone" states sales way increased.. From what to what and were those ind. or larger lot sales than normal?
What are the historical stats.
Any real info is behind paywalls..

Redacted part sounds promising..

Metal Halide Lamps Market 2023 ( New Report of 127 Pages ) with Size, Share, Trends & Analysis Report by Top Prominent Players till 2030

""Metal Halide Lamps Market"" Research report Insights 2023 | New Report Spread Across [ 127 Pages ]. Metal Halide Lamps Market cover market size for segment by Applications [ Commercial Use, Industrial Use ], By Types [ Quartz Metal Halide Lamps, Ceramic Metal Halide Lamps ] offers extensive foreca

www.linkedin.com

Only Radiums I see actually for sale are either $99 or $149-ish soo already a "lot" more.

oreo54 · Nov 21, 2023

YOYOYOReefer said:
Yet I had over a dozen delivered this month. Phoenix sells their bulbs on Amazon. I use their 150 de 14 k bulbs They have them in stock now.

Found a bunch more of 150W-ers

150W Metal Halide Double Ended 10K 10000K 14k 14000K 20K 20000K Aquarium Fish Tank Coral Reef Light Bulb Replacement Lamp

www.replacementlightbulbs.com

Plusrite 250's(10,14,and 20) are on the discontinued list.

Plusrite MH250/HOR/MOG/14K 10K 20K 250W M58/E Aquarium, Fish Tank, Coral Reef, Light Bulb, Replacement Lamp

WhatCouldGoWrong71 · Nov 21, 2023

So, is it an OK time to ask if a CFL will fit in this fixture?

FUNGI · Nov 21, 2023

WhatCouldGoWrong71 said:
In my spare time I could always cut and glue some glass mirror, lol.

The backing on the glass mirror will burn.....its gonna put a ton of heat out........

A. grandis · Nov 21, 2023

Hamilton will have most bulbs back in stock!
I doubt they will produce the fixtures gain, which is very unfortunate. When I contacted them a while ago they said they were thinking about... I don't think it will happen.
The demand for the bulbs is good enough, but I think to invest on fixtures gets a little scary right now. But anything can happen!!
The bad news is that if they decide not to produce the fixtures again, the demand for bulbs will eventually fall. If there is no new fixtures, no new hobbyists using halides, consequently the drop for future demand. To keep the business running at it's max they would need to invest in fixtures, ballasts, advertisement, and possibly in a recycle program for the bulbs.
Radium MIGHT produce a batch of bulbs, IF a large quantity order pops up. We just have to hope for a great 2024!
Happy Thanksgiving!

xabo · Nov 25, 2023

Store Lighting Supplies Metal Halide Bulbs

Buy online Hamilton's best bulb is this 250 Watt 14,000K Metal Halide mogul type. Will bring out an attractive fluorescence from your fish and corals. Outstanding color.

www.customaquatic.com