Is Vibrant trying to kill my lions

piranhaman00 · Jul 10, 2020

lion king said:
Krill and most varieties of silversides contains thiaminese which will bind vitimin B1. Hikara brand silversides is a variety of fish species which does not contain thiaminese.

Don’t entertain this guy, constantly posts rubbish around the forum.

JCOLE · Jul 10, 2020

jda said:
It is algaecide. A few of the locals in our club had some tested in a local lab - there is no bacteria in it. They are liars. It is UWCs product and they get to keep their secrets about what is in it, but I wish that they would not lie about it.

I am sorry for your losses.

I am not disagreeing with you as that does disturb me when there are so many unanswered questions from UWC about this product on their thread. However, there is numerous microscope pictures and movies of the bacteria attacking and eating algae. Seems like there is bacteria when I see things like that.

jda · Jul 10, 2020

Look at some yourself. Seriously. Even a Wal-Mart microscope can do. Think about it... what other bacteria product does not have a shelf life? What other bacteria product claims that it cannot multiply in a tank and can only be added out of the manufacturers bottle?

Then, after you look in the microscope and think about this stuff, compare the instructions with something like API AlgaeFix or other algaecides.

I once posted our results of the lab assay and the response from UWC was "culture some and see the bacteria." When we asked them about their claim that the bacteria will not reproduce in our tanks, we just got more BS. Does it culture, or not? BTW, you can take pure RO and eventually bacteria will culture if you give them building blocks.

They are liars. That is all that there is to it. If people want to believe them, then it is no sweat to me. I have pretty much given up trying to convince the fanboys and people who will believe anything on YouTube, but sometimes I feel that people want to actually know. Some people just need their algae to go away and they don't care how.

This is really the bottom line: what other company is so wishy washy about their product? Has there ever been a case in human history when this type of behavior from a company is legit?

Big G · Jul 10, 2020

lion king said:
Fu and antennata are dead, both died overnight. I couldn't find my dissection tools and did a pretty good butcher job cutting them open. I really didn't find anything drastic, some slight hemmorraging at the base of the liver in the antennata, the color of the liver was good. Their stomach contents were empty and there was no obvious signs that could be determined.

All the organs looked really good with very little fat deposit; a bit more in the antennata but not excessive.. They lived on a live dominant diet; ghosties 2-3 times a week and mollies once a week. They would get a chunk of fatty fish occasionally if they would take it, tuna and salmon. Some "tiny shrimp", human grade krill from the asian market, and silver fish from the asian market; occasionally if they would take it.

The fu was a female and her ovaries were completely shrunken and dark. Fu's don't usually come in itty bitty and she was likely over 3 years if not 4 when I got her. She lived with me for 8.5 years, so that puts her at about 12 or older, which is in line with their lifespan in the wild; still sad.

The antenatta was a male, he was a little guy when I got him, likely around 3 years. He was with me almost 8 years, so it puts him at the low end of their lifespan in the wild.

Exactly what may have happened I don't know, but I'm not much for coincidences. Their decline started immediately after the dosage of vibrant and 2 died the same night. The zebra is hanging on and there just isn't anything to do. Ph test 8.0-8.1 and all other levels are good. I am 100% convinced that vibrant is not just bacteria, and be forewarned; DO NOT dose this stuff with lions or scorps.

Sorry for your loss. Heart breaking.

lion king · Jul 10, 2020

JumboShrimp said:
I must tend to agree with your conclusion, as disturbing as it may be at first blush; too much of a ‘coincidence’ indeed.

Zebra is now dead, nothing can dispatch death so precise within hours to the same species other that a poison. No disease or malnourishment could effect 3 fish simultaneously and kill them each within hours of each other. There was nothing else added to the tank other than the vibrant and it has been established for years; all parameters checked out.

Just for some collected info, here's a full grown zebra lion, I got him under 3" about 6 months after fu, so with me almost 8 years. It's always hard to tell how old a fish when you get them, but at least 2 years maybe 3. So another at the low end of life span in the wild.

Some pics, as you can see the organs look good, another good looking liver and minimal fat deposit. There was blood in the cavity. The next pic, it was a male, here a pic of his gonads.