Just Another SPS Color Thread

[BrotherReef]

Not to throw a monkey wrench into the program, I was told that if your are running a UNLS system(with the parameters you are showing), that alkalinity should be around 7-8 dKh. Is this a fact or myth?

 

[Big Tuna]

T5 is definitely where it's at. I know you can get some amazing colors with leds, but I still think there's a tiny bit of something missing. Leds do a great job with displaying colors and showing out colors in the corals, but I definitely think t5s develop colors that leds just can't.

Has anyone running leds ever gotten a frag from someone who is running all t5s? The frag will look stunning when you bring it home to an led system; even better than how it looks in the t5 system. But give it several days to weeks, and it just feels like the frag lost its ooomph that it had at first. I know there are a million factors at play here, but at the same time, i think it has alot to do with the lighting.

T5s as the primary light source with leds as supplement is my all time favorite set up.

I've notice that some sps under my LEDs would turn from red to green (even if I moved the frag right up to the top under the light or down to the bottom of the tank with less light) or from a rainbowy orange color mixture to completely orange (especially with acans). I've had some corals with pinks, blues and reds but under LEDs and over time the coral would turn completely pink. LEDs would strip the acro of its different colors turning them monochromatic.

Keep in mind when buying an sps that it will dull out a bit sometimes when you place it in yor tank no matter what. It needs time to acclimate to different light and parameters. What I notice from buying pieces grown under t5 or halides and placing then under LEDs is that they will either never color back up like they once were or they color up differently from the purchase and a lot of the time it is less pleasing.

IMO the trick to coloring up sps are extremely stable parameters, nutrients and feedings and of course, proper quality lighting.

 

[Big Tuna]

How will the higher nitrates affect the corals that are decently colored or those that actually seem a little brown? I feel like I have a mix of lighter colored, properly colored and a little brown in my tank. And again I'm with you on wanting to switch to T5s.

I've actually switch to the t5s. I think you be surprised in what a difference it will make.

The higher nutrients will allow the zooxanthellae, the algea within the coral's tissue which is actually the colored pigments in an sps's corals coralites, to grow. In a ULNS you starve the zooxanthellae and this is why the corals get pastel and bleach.
With more nutrients but not too much, all of you corals should color up nicely in time.

 

[Big Tuna]

Not to throw a monkey wrench into the program, I was told that if your are running a UNLS system(with the parameters you are showing), that alkalinity should be around 7-8 dKh. Is this a fact or myth?

From my experienc, when my nitrates and phosphates were 0 and my alk was at 9.8 I was getting STN and burnt tips but as I slowly dropped my alk to 7.7 the STN and burnt tips had stopped (in time, nothing fast happens in a red tank). Now that I was finally able to bring my phosphates up to .03 and my nitrates to about 5ish, I raised my alk a bit to 8.5 and I am having no issues at the moment.

From my experiences and from everything that I have read, i you have 0 nutrients then you want low alk. If you have some to a little bit higher nutrients, than you want your alk to be a bit higher.

 

[mcarroll]

@Big Tuna, were/are you carbon dosing?

 

[Brandon McHenry]

I've notice that some sps under my LEDs would turn from red to green (even if I moved the frag right up to the top under the light or down to the bottom of the tank with less light) or from a rainbowy orange color mixture to completely orange (especially with acans). I've had some corals with pinks, blues and reds but under LEDs and over time the coral would turn completely pink. LEDs would strip the acro of its different colors turning them monochromatic.

Keep in mind when buying an sps that it will dull out a bit sometimes when you place it in yor tank no matter what. It needs time to acclimate to different light and parameters. What I notice from buying pieces grown under t5 or halides and placing then under LEDs is that they will either never color back up like they once were or they color up differently from the purchase and a lot of the time it is less pleasing.

IMO the trick to coloring up sps are extremely stable parameters, nutrients and feedings and of course, proper quality lighting.

Well I definitely agree that it is difficult to color up SPS under LED's, or at least from my experience it has been. And yes I always am prepared for the coral to change color once its under my lighting and has been fully acclimated. For the most part its an improvement because many of the pieces I can get my hands on are not the nicest from my LFS.

I also agree with you about what it takes to color up SPS. I strive for the most stable water parameters I can as well as keeping my tank well fed. The nutrients were always low in my tank even with the feeding which is why KNO3 has come up in the discussion. In regards to the proper light, are you saying that the LED's are not proper quality lighting in my case or is it more of a blanket statement about good lighting?

I've actually switch to the t5s. I think you be surprised in what a difference it will make.

The higher nutrients will allow the zooxanthellae, the algea within the coral's tissue which is actually the colored pigments in an sps's corals coralites, to grow. In a ULNS you starve the zooxanthellae and this is why the corals get pastel and bleach.
With more nutrients but not too much, all of you corals should color up nicely in time.

In regards to the switch to T5's, would the addition of two bulbs really balance out the loss of the LED's? I already have 4 T5's (2 on either side of my LED's) via retrofit kits. By removing the LED's I could fit in two more bulb but would that really make that drastic of a difference?

In terms of the nutrients it can't just be NO3 though can it? There has to be some PO4 (in very small concentration) to allow the zooxanthellae to benefit from the NO3 through photosynthesis. According to salifert my PO4 has always been 0ppm even on the high resolution test.

Not to throw a monkey wrench into the program, I was told that if your are running a UNLS system(with the parameters you are showing), that alkalinity should be around 7-8 dKh. Is this a fact or myth?

I believe there is some truth to this. If you are truly ULNS than a higher alkalinity or even the slightest changes in alkalinity can be damaging to the SPS. I used to run alkalinity at 11-12dkh when I was using the Red Sea Coral Pro salt which has a high alkalinity. I noticed that STN and RTN as well as burnt tips were much easier to come by at that high alkalinity, hence the reason I have come back down to about 8.4 dkh. I have had no where near the losses that I have had at the higher alkalinity. Im not saying that this is all fact, just what I have noticed in my own tank.

 

[Brandon McHenry]

Just an update. I was at WWC on Sunday, amazing place by the way, and I spoke with one of the SPS experts there. He suggested that I turn down the intensity of my LED's especially my whites. He said that is would also be beneficial to get my tank temperature down to about 78 by the use of some fans across the water surface. He said I may also benefit from cranking my Vortechs as high as they go because he is an advocate of vey high flow. And as some of you may know their amazing display tank runs at like 30ppm nitrates and who knows how much phosphate. He said from my tank pictures that my corals do look a bit starved and would agree that an increase in nutrients would help. Finally he said that he is an advocate of Brightwells CoralAmino. He said to try the other things first but if I was interested he said that it was his favorite on the market. If anyone would like to weigh in it would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Russ265]

Just an update. I was at WWC on Sunday, amazing place by the way, and I spoke with one of the SPS experts there. He suggested that I turn down the intensity of my LED's especially my whites. He said that is would also be beneficial to get my tank temperature down to about 78 by the use of some fans across the water surface. He said I may also benefit from cranking my Vortechs as high as they go because he is an advocate of vey high flow. And as some of you may know their amazing display tank runs at like 30ppm nitrates and who knows how much phosphate. He said from my tank pictures that my corals do look a bit starved and would agree that an increase in nutrients would help. Finally he said that he is an advocate of Brightwells CoralAmino. He said to try the other things first but if I was interested he said that it was his favorite on the market. If anyone would like to weigh in it would be greatly appreciated!

everything i already said. idk. maybe i should just avoid chiming in.

aminos stay away from. or enjoy cyano.

 

[Brandon McHenry]

everything i already said. idk. maybe i should just avoid chiming in.

aminos stay away from. or enjoy cyano.

I disagree. That is how we all learn. I am a science major. I am programmed to ask questions, question answers and explore all of the possibilities. I didn't doubt what you said or shrug it off but it is certainly more comforting when I get the same answer from multiple unconnected sources.

As for the aminos is that just brightwells or all? Ive tried a fair few and no cyano. Maybe because my tank is already low on nutrients.

 

[Russ265]

I disagree. That is how we all learn. I am a science major. I am programmed to ask questions, question answers and explore all of the possibilities. I didn't doubt what you said or shrug it off but it is certainly more comforting when I get the same answer from multiple unconnected sources.

As for the aminos is that just brightwells or all? Ive tried a fair few and no cyano. Maybe because my tank is already low on nutrients.

while i agree with forming our own conclusions by researching from the batch and going our own course. these suggestions werent exactly "risky" right?

as far as AA go. i havent seen any changes using it or avoiding it like i have with light settings, flow, and nutrients.

i went the original dose of acropower for a couple of weeks registering 0 nitrates and some traces of cyano.
i doubled the doseage daily until i finally registered 2 ppm nitrate. of course cyano binds nitrogen quite effectively and it went to 0 again.

so after my observation, i do not believe corals consume amino acids, but require them for growth. much like we require vitamins to function, but the multi vitamin industry getting flipped on it's head when doctors state they are placebos essentially.

corals do require nitrate and phosphate or they die.

 

[Big Tuna]

@Big Tuna, were/are you carbon dosing?

I do not carbon dose. I've never had the need to.

 

[Big Tuna]

Well I definitely agree that it is difficult to color up SPS under LED's, or at least from my experience it has been. And yes I always am prepared for the coral to change color once its under my lighting and has been fully acclimated. For the most part its an improvement because many of the pieces I can get my hands on are not the nicest from my LFS.

I also agree with you about what it takes to color up SPS. I strive for the most stable water parameters I can as well as keeping my tank well fed. The nutrients were always low in my tank even with the feeding which is why KNO3 has come up in the discussion. In regards to the proper light, are you saying that the LED's are not proper quality lighting in my case or is it more of a blanket statement about good lighting?


In regards to the switch to T5's, would the addition of two bulbs really balance out the loss of the LED's? I already have 4 T5's (2 on either side of my LED's) via retrofit kits. By removing the LED's I could fit in two more bulb but would that really make that drastic of a difference?

In terms of the nutrients it can't just be NO3 though can it? There has to be some PO4 (in very small concentration) to allow the zooxanthellae to benefit from the NO3 through photosynthesis. According to salifert my PO4 has always been 0ppm even on the high resolution test.


I believe there is some truth to this. If you are truly ULNS than a higher alkalinity or even the slightest changes in alkalinity can be damaging to the SPS. I used to run alkalinity at 11-12dkh when I was using the Red Sea Coral Pro salt which has a high alkalinity. I noticed that STN and RTN as well as burnt tips were much easier to come by at that high alkalinity, hence the reason I have come back down to about 8.4 dkh. I have had no where near the losses that I have had at the higher alkalinity. Im not saying that this is all fact, just what I have noticed in my own tank.

As for "proper lighting" I am talking about the right intensity and color spectrum so it was more of a blanket statement. I personally do not love LEDs but some people have great success and I don't have any real scientific facts beside what has occurred in my reef over time and with only 2 types of led brands. But there are definitely cons to LEDs.

What are the current dimensions of your tank and what size bulbs and ballast are you running as of right now?

As for nutrients, I feel you would need both PO4 and NO3. Too much of one and zero of another will not be ideal when you are trying to tweak your sps colors. I personally have had good experience with PO4 at .03ppm. Also the more nutirents you the higher your light intensity can be. The plankton within the sps will be able to pull enough nutrients from your water column. Thus being able to keep up with the reproduction of its self within the corals tissue bringing out more coloration.

 

[Big Tuna]

everything i already said. idk. maybe i should just avoid chiming in.

aminos stay away from. or enjoy cyano.

If your tank is running hot definitely add a fan or two. I keep my water about 77-78 and try not to exceed. High turn over and water flow is critical. Keep an eye on really high direct flow, it can make sps angry .

I've never used brightwells aminos but I have used some others and I've never had any issues with cyno. I've noticed cyno pops up when a parameter is out of whack. I actually battled cyno for a bit when my nitrates and phos were both zero zero. I brought my nutrients up and the cyno vanished like a delicious slice of pizza.

 

[Brandon McHenry]

while i agree with forming our own conclusions by researching from the batch and going our own course. these suggestions werent exactly "risky" right?

as far as AA go. i havent seen any changes using it or avoiding it like i have with light settings, flow, and nutrients.

i went the original dose of acropower for a couple of weeks registering 0 nitrates and some traces of cyano.
i doubled the doseage daily until i finally registered 2 ppm nitrate. of course cyano binds nitrogen quite effectively and it went to 0 again.

so after my observation, i do not believe corals consume amino acids, but require them for growth. much like we require vitamins to function, but the multi vitamin industry getting flipped on it's head when doctors state they are placebos essentially.

corals do require nitrate and phosphate or they die.

No they were not risky. I was just a little nervous because there were conflicting opinions and I didn't want to make the wrong one. FWI I have purchased the KNO3 and have been slowly raising my nitrates. I feel like it is still too soon to tell how they will react. I feel as if they may be so used to the low nutrient system that it may take a few days for them to begin utilizing the nitrate. However my PO4 still reads 0 on the high sensitivity test.

Across my many attempts at amino acids I have not found any that make any appreciable difference either. Im sure there are some benefits to amino acids for corals but maybe it depends on the system. As of right now I do not want to change too many things at once so amino acids are on the back burner at the moment.

As for "proper lighting" I am talking about the right intensity and color spectrum so it was more of a blanket statement. I personally do not love LEDs but some people have great success and I don't have any real scientific facts beside what has occurred in my reef over time and with only 2 types of led brands. But there are definitely cons to LEDs.

What are the current dimensions of your tank and what size bulbs and ballast are you running as of right now?

As for nutrients, I feel you would need both PO4 and NO3. Too much of one and zero of another will not be ideal when you are trying to tweak your sps colors. I personally have had good experience with PO4 at .03ppm. Also the more nutirents you the higher your light intensity can be. The plankton within the sps will be able to pull enough nutrients from your water column. Thus being able to keep up with the reproduction of its self within the corals tissue bringing out more coloration.

I agree that LED's are tough to work with. Ive never ben blown away by them or the results that I've gotten.

My tank is a standard 150 gallon 72x27x18. I am running 4 60 inch t5 bulbs on a retrofit kit, two hydra 52's and one original hydra.

With my current feeding schedule of three times a day I still register 0 PO4. Any suggestions on how I may be able to get some into my water?

If your tank is running hot definitely add a fan or two. I keep my water about 77-78 and try not to exceed. High turn over and water flow is critical. Keep an eye on really high direct flow, it can make sps angry .

I've never used brightwells aminos but I have used some others and I've never had any issues with cyno. I've noticed cyno pops up when a parameter is out of whack. I actually battled cyno for a bit when my nitrates and phos were both zero zero. I brought my nutrients up and the cyno vanished like a delicious slice of pizza.

The tank usually runs between 80-81. By moving my fan to point more towards the water surface I have brought the temperature down to 79-80. I am hoping by adding a fan below the tank to blow across the sump I can drop the temp down to 77-78. As for the flow I am monitoring the responses of the sps to the increased, and more importantly, direct flow.

 

[Big Tuna]

No they were not risky. I was just a little nervous because there were conflicting opinions and I didn't want to make the wrong one. FWI I have purchased the KNO3 and have been slowly raising my nitrates. I feel like it is still too soon to tell how they will react. I feel as if they may be so used to the low nutrient system that it may take a few days for them to begin utilizing the nitrate. However my PO4 still reads 0 on the high sensitivity test.

Across my many attempts at amino acids I have not found any that make any appreciable difference either. Im sure there are some benefits to amino acids for corals but maybe it depends on the system. As of right now I do not want to change too many things at once so amino acids are on the back burner at the moment.


I agree that LED's are tough to work with. Ive never ben blown away by them or the results that I've gotten.

My tank is a standard 150 gallon 72x27x18. I am running 4 60 inch t5 bulbs on a retrofit kit, two hydra 52's and one original hydra.

With my current feeding schedule of three times a day I still register 0 PO4. Any suggestions on how I may be able to get some into my water?


The tank usually runs between 80-81. By moving my fan to point more towards the water surface I have brought the temperature down to 79-80. I am hoping by adding a fan below the tank to blow across the sump I can drop the temp down to 77-78. As for the flow I am monitoring the responses of the sps to the increased, and more importantly, direct flow.

Watch with dosing nitrates. Adding nitrates to your tank will actually lower your phosphates. If your phosphates are already at zero it may not have a positive effects on your tank.

As for amminos. I've used acropower, fuel, nyos amminos and reef energy a and b. I've really noticed a difference with the nyos and the reef energy. I'm currently using coral nectar, reef energy a and b and the nyos amminos to keep my phos and nitrates up. I cut out most of my fuge and didn't let it get so over grown, stopped water changes for a bit, I fed multiple frozen cubes a day without rinsing them, I changed my filter socks less frequently, dosed amminos and coral foods and I have even introduced small bits of the thick skimmate back into my tank. Its amazing the polyp extension you will get from doing this. Eventually it all caught up and I made adjustments from there.

Your tank is 27" wide?

 

[Brandon McHenry]

Watch with dosing nitrates. Adding nitrates to your tank will actually lower your phosphates. If your phosphates are already at zero it may not have a positive effects on your tank.

As for amminos. I've used acropower, fuel, nyos amminos and reef energy a and b. I've really noticed a difference with the nyos and the reef energy. I'm currently using coral nectar, reef energy a and b and the nyos amminos to keep my phos and nitrates up. I cut out most of my fuge and didn't let it get so over grown, stopped water changes for a bit, I fed multiple frozen cubes a day without rinsing them, I changed my filter socks less frequently, dosed amminos and coral foods and I have even introduced small bits of the thick skimmate back into my tank. Its amazing the polyp extension you will get from doing this. Eventually it all caught up and I made adjustments from there.

Your tank is 27" wide?

I have never seen coral nectar or nyos but I have used acropower, fuel, reef energy a and b as well as zeovit high concentrate amino. I have never seen any great differences when using these products. I also prune my refugium and I have never rinsed my frozen cubes as I use Hikari Bio-Pure. My filter socks only get changed when they start to overflow. As for the skimmate I have never let any of that back into my tank.

No my tank is 27 tall 18 wide.

 

[Russ265]

I have never seen coral nectar or nyos but I have used acropower, fuel, reef energy a and b as well as zeovit high concentrate amino. I have never seen any great differences when using these products. I also prune my refugium and I have never rinsed my frozen cubes as I use Hikari Bio-Pure. My filter socks only get changed when they start to overflow. As for the skimmate I have never let any of that back into my tank.

No my tank is 27 tall 18 wide.

point is. anyone suggesting using amino acids is in a fairy tale land of retarded. there is no conclusive evidence and even ones that weigh heavily on the use of it admit that it isnt much of anything.
might as well throw motor oil in your tank and say it colored up your sps.

amino acids do nothing. not anyone can prove otherwise because it doesnt.

i can state throwing a multivitamin in your tank will color up your corals and after doing so i will get the same flim flam from everyone else.

you have better results with placebos.

and if you think i am too harsh. i will guarantee this. cyano. you will get it. even with 0 detectable nitrate from a rs pro kit.

my .02

 

[Brandon McHenry]

point is. anyone suggesting using amino acids is in a fairy tale land of retarded. there is no conclusive evidence and even ones that weigh heavily on the use of it admit that it isnt much of anything.
might as well throw motor oil in your tank and say it colored up your sps.

amino acids do nothing. not anyone can prove otherwise because it doesnt.

i can state throwing a multivitamin in your tank will color up your corals and after doing so i will get the same flim flam from everyone else.

you have better results with placebos.

and if you think i am too harsh. i will guarantee this. cyano. you will get it. even with 0 detectable nitrate from a rs pro kit.

my .02

Never meant to start any arguments. Just wanted suggestions on coloring up my acros. Thanks. Ill try the KNO3.

 

[Big Tuna]

Never meant to start any arguments. Just wanted suggestions on coloring up my acros. Thanks. Ill try the KNO3.

You can probably get away with 6 t5s on an 18" wide tank.

I'd watch with dosing nitrates and having no phosphates. Do some research on lowing phosphates with adding nitrats and vise vursa. You will see what I'm talking about

I would feed a lot more and try to get your nitrates up that way. Add reef roids and oysters pearls to your tank. This is sure to raise your nutrients. I also forgot to mention that I shut my skimmer off for 7-8 hours a day after feeding.

 

[Brandon McHenry]

You can probably get away with 6 t5s on an 18" wide tank.

I'd watch with dosing nitrates and having no phosphates. Do some research on lowing phosphates with adding nitrats and vise vursa. You will see what I'm talking about

I would feed a lot more and try to get your nitrates up that way. Add reef roids and oysters pearls to your tank. This is sure to raise your nutrients. I also forgot to mention that I shut my skimmer off for 7-8 hours a day after feeding.

Thank you. I am aware that nitrate dosing can lower phosphates because of the ratio in which they are utilized many photosynthetic organisms. It is a concern and I will do my best to address it.

At three fish feedings a day I was unsure of how to feed more being a full time college student without feeding them shortly after another feeding. As for reef roids and oyster pearls my LFS naturally doesn't carry them. That would have to be something that I order online somewhere. I have heard about reef roids but never oyster pearls. Do you like them?