Just say no to small frags!

[emerald525]

This topic has come up in the past but I think it's a good reminder and now there is some science to back it up. Please also know this post is not directed at anyone it is simply something I have noticed myself and it's a good reminder to newbies as well.


Beware of small frags!:sad:

Here's the link to the article:


(Scientifically) Smarter Frags | Coral Magazine


The article only mentions sps but I have personally found it applies to chalices and zoas as well. Sure the price is going to be lower but in the end it is better to spend a bit more for a bigger frag because the survivability is so much better.

Personally I never buy or shipan sps that is less than 1 inch or a chalice piece that is less than 1 inch in size if shipped because there is already a great deal of stress on the coral when you ship.

 

[n0sferatu]

Good article. It seems that the more LE the coral, the smaller the frag gets...

 

[Salty Dog]

there is a vendor here that I will not metion that sells 3/4" sps frags for top dollar, I just think thats ridiculous

 

[emerald525]

I can see the temptation to buy the smaller frags because the price is so much lower but I always remind myself:

It's not a good deal if it ends up dead.

It's amazing what a huge difference it makes. Here's an exerpt from the article:

In the first experiment, 15 fragments measuring 1 inch (2.5 cm) and 1.75 inches (4.5 cm) in length were obtained from donor corals and glued to substrate rocks out of the water. After 20 days only 13 percent of the smaller fragments were still alive, while the figure was 87 percent for the larger specimens.

 

[fab1971]

While I don't agree with small boogers, unfortunately the only way to propogate and share certain pieces is to cut small. Some of these rarer pieces take forever to grow and I mean that. While a piece like pink *******, miami hurricane or several mummy eyes are growing fast and spreading out, others like the orange immolation, Pnoy's convict and Tyree Doomsday barely show any growth. Hence the big frags and small frags for sale. I've also cut the more expensive pieces out there smaller, in order to make it affordable for people to buy at a discount price. Examples being small flamethrowers for under $100 or Bahama mamas for $125-$150. Unfortunately the risk comes along with the reward. Growth takes longer, receding can kill the frags and being smaller makes them more sensitive. I recently sold 2 packs of the widowmaker and pinkalicious chalices shipped for $125. The pieces were small, the risk a little greater but the guys who bought it now have two really nice chalices at a great price, especially considering how much it costs to ship nowadays. But overall, I hate small boogers. It's just sometimes, it's not so clear cut. And it's especially bad when people are charging top dollar for tiny pieces.

 

[emerald525]

Excellent points Frank. I think it is fine if someone wants to take the chance as long as they know the risks involved. If they can and it's available going with a larger frag even if it cost a little more is better IMO. I have gotten lucky. A LFS owner tried to frag his TEC watermelon for me and it broke and I only got half an eye so he just gave it to me. I got lucky and it survived.

The other thing that helps with survivability is healing time particularly with shipping. I have picked up fresh frags from my LFS of sps and they do fine but with shipping I have personally found better survivability when corals are allowed to heal at least 2 weeks after fragging

 

[LPS Hunter]

It makes sense...more polyps/eyes, better chance to grow and survive the stress.

To me, greed seems to be the biggest factor behind some of these minuscule frags. But again, you don't have to buy em.

 

[fab1971]

Healing and shipping are big when it comes to the health of frags. I've found that shipping with double or triple the water has helped ensure that the frag doesn't recede or stress as much, even when shipping from coast to coast or when there are problems with shipping delays. And you've definitely hit the point on healing. It should be a minimum of 10-14 days before shipping but truthfully, the best case scenario is keeping a frag for a month or two of healing, especially when sensitive or small.

 

[spscrazy]

what I really don't like is when I see a frag offered that is tiny & they show the mother colony & it's only a little 2" or so frag itself with a few branches I never get those

 

[SaltWaterDave]

Good read, thanks for sharing!

 

[Tabasco1]

Thanks for sharing! Small frags scare me!

 

[NautilusQ]

Cheers for ethical frag propagation. It saves our beloved animals.

 

[efrain torres]

We're with you Frank!:xd:

 

[pumarjr]

I for one cannot stand small frags, my tank has at least 30 small, puny frags in it, I hate them, i'd rather spend money on larger frags than get shipped these things. Also, some vendors like to provide really close up shots of the corals you will buy so that they look larger, when you get them, boy, you will also need a macro lens to identity the coral.I recently ran into this exact issue, I had ordered something, when I got them i was shocked because of how tiny the polyps were, I never knew that fruit loops come in such small form, I mean i can literally take 3 polyps and place them on an eraser head. the pic I had ordered from showed polyps with awesome color, nice size and what I received in the mail was night and day difference. I am done with mail order frags, that stuff is for the birds, I will collect my own or drive the 150miles to the nearest LFS to buy in person before I purchase micro frags again. I am slowly removing these terribly small frags from my tank, just don't feel like waiting the next century for them to grow out.

 

[turfster26]

I think of equally importance to the size of the frags is how long they were in the holding tank prior to selling. While size is important, I have found that the true fraggers clip, glue and house their newly cut frags for weeks and sometimes a month or more. This way you are assured of greater survival and they healed in the tank's water that they were cut from, etc.

IMHO

 

[orthokardia]

Not to get to ot, but the article mentioned different survival rates for fragging under water. What is under water fragging?

 

[toyencounters]

Good Thread!

 

[sreefer]

Good read no more small frags. Thanks.

 

[gflat65]

Maybe I'm the only one, but I have to call at least some agenda based BS in that article. I was going to post a thread, but you beat me to it. One, it is based on one species of coral done in the wild. To draw absolutes from one small data set is irresponsible of Coral magazine. I generally try to cut larger frags now that have decent sized colonies, but over the last decade, I've probably cut at least several thousand SPS frags, all of which were glued out of water. If I'd had even as low as 75 percent (percent sign doesn't work) survivability on them, I'd never frag again (have only had nice sized colonies the last three or so years). Sure, more surface area puts on more surface area more quickly than less surface area, but to make the blanket statements they made irritated me. There are very few absolutes in life... Larger frags never hurt, but to say that if you cut 1" frags and glue out of water, you'll only see 20% survival rates is straight up crap. Numbers do what you want them to...

 

[kingb4c0]

Great info! Thanks for sharing.