kalkwasser and high alkalinity

[Shinte122305]

alk down to 10.8 from 11.5 yesterday so maybe in a week or so i'll give 1tsp per 5 gallons a whirl. i shall not be defeated by some cloudy water!

lol You just got to find the correct ratio. i grow corals in a 300 gallon frag tank and i do dose 2 part but to maintain my ph higher i also use kalk. What i did was low ball the hell out of it at first. Go with 2 TSP in 5 gallons and see how much this increases alk. dont chase ph just find the right amount of kalk. more kalk higher ph lower dosing of 2 part simple as that until you find balance.

I have a 30 gallon ATO container and i use 12 TSP this helps my PH stay up and i still need to dose a little 2 part to hold my alk and calcium in place.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

but how much i put was over the saturation point so i don't know. or somehow despite me putting my pump several inches above the bottom it was maybe sucking in the undissolved sludge.

This is actually a likely cause, depending on your actual ATO pump. In my case, and when I was using kalk, I rather quickly determined that the Tunze ATO pumps that I use created far too much water movement to allow putting kalk directly into the ATO container. So I simply mixed the kalkwasser in a separate bucket, and poured off the clear liquid into the ATO container. At some point I decided the precipitated calcium carbonate was too hard on the ATO pump (Tunze's manual notes this, btw), and I bought a kalk reactor, which was much easy to use.

 

[BeejReef]

The saturation point depends on (among other things) temperature. Unlike most compounds, calcium hydroxide has an inverse saturation amount vs. temperature. If you look at the table about halfway down on the right of the wikipedia page, you'll see that calcium hydroxide's solubility in water is 1.89 g/L at 0 deg C, 1.73 g/L at 20 deg C, and 0.66 g/L at 100 deg C. Some folks add vinegar to their kalk solution, which increases the solubility considerably, though it also means they're carbon dosing.

That's very interesting. So, in the summer time when it gets warmer and muggier, not only am I evaporating less and topping off w less RODI... the RODI top off I am using has the potential to hold less Kalk than it did over the winter?

 

[FishDoc]

hello, so about two weeks ago I started doing kalkwasser in my ATO container. I started with 3 teaspoons to about 4 gallons of RODI. slightly more than the 1/2 teaspoon per gallon, but i have a bunch of corals in my tank and i had been dosing bionic 2 part at about 6 ml/s a day. after my last water change (plus starting kalkwasser) i noticed my alk had jumped from about mid 8s to about high 9s, so i stopped dosing the two part. i got busy this week and from when i last tested (high 9s monday) to this morning my alk is now 11.8 , so i added a couple gallons of RODI to my ATO without any kalk. so uhh, my question is, what the heck?!? do i even try doing 1/2 teaspoon per RODI gallon or is my tank just not eating up enough alk to do kalk?

also, i don't have an apex or anything to monitor pH, but i tested that this morning and it was somewhere between the 8.4 and the 8.6 on a salifert test (this was before my lights even went on). how accurate are those tests and how bad is a pH that high? is there some way to do kalk without it jacking my pH up that high? I won't lie, i rarely ever tested pH before i was doing kalk because short of opening doors and windows and running a refugium i didn't really have a way to mess with it so i didn't test and left it alone. before doing kalk i tested it a few times at different times of the day and it was generally in the 7.9/8.0ish range, so i figured i could do better there.

should i just dump out my ATO container and go back to dosing 2 part? i have had some coral issues lately, but i also recently got into trying to do acros, so i kinda chalked that up to just not knowing what i'm doing with them yet. issues including RTN of one acro, STN of another, and just recently my strawberry shortcake looked like it bleached, but not like RTN. it was fast (overnight), but didn't look bleach white like the RTN one did, but definitely lost color and looks like better days might not be ahead.

oh and last parameters check:

alk today: 11.8
calcium last weekend: 419
magnesium a couple weeks ago: 1380
nitrates 10~
phosphates were .04 a couple weeks ago
temp: 78-80

The safer thing to do would be to gauge evaporation and set potency equal to consumption needs. At a minimum, I would have started at a lesser potency, say 1/2 teaspoon/gal and went from there. You need to be careful not to swims pH drastically every time your ato kicks on as well. Honestly, I personally wouldn’t dose higher strength kalkwasser through an ato without a pH probe. That’s just me.

 

[mattzang]

The safer thing to do would be to gauge evaporation and set potency equal to consumption needs. At a minimum, I would have started at a lesser potency, say 1/2 teaspoon/gal and went from there. You need to be careful not to swims pH drastically every time your ato kicks on as well. Honestly, I personally wouldn’t dose higher strength kalkwasser through an ato without a pH probe. That’s just me.

you're probably right, in the winter my doors/windows are generally closed, but in the summer my doors/windows are open from 6 pm to 9 am give or take, so i'm guessing my pH is already quite high i just tested at the wrong times or something. I think I'll try this again in a bit, but I'll do like 1 tsp for 5 gallons and i'll mix it in a separate bucket and then try to avoid putting any of the sludge in the ato reservoir

This is actually a likely cause, depending on your actual ATO pump. In my case, and when I was using kalk, I rather quickly determined that the Tunze ATO pumps that I use created far too much water movement to allow putting kalk directly into the ATO container. So I simply mixed the kalkwasser in a separate bucket, and poured off the clear liquid into the ATO container. At some point I decided the precipitated calcium carbonate was too hard on the ATO pump (Tunze's manual notes this, btw), and I bought a kalk reactor, which was much easy to use.

yeah, kalk reactor was the plan eventually, i figured i could get away with a couple months of using it in the ato reservoir, though. it's always a couple hundred bucks for anything in this freaking hobby..

i have the duetto xp aqua ATO, idk how much movement it really makes, doesn't look like much, though.

the other issue i have is i can't really calculate evaporation levels because my ATO has a large gap in the top. (gotta love buying something on offerup, i didn't know the top was like that) so i lose a decent amount of water in the reservoir to evaporation itself lol

 

[Dburr1014]

I read through the post and have a solution for you.
I dosed Kalk for a couple years in my top of at 1tsp per gallon.
Go as you plan with 1tsp to the 5 gallons. Mix in a different container as others had said and pour the clear water in the top of container. I used to mix it the night before and the next morning put it in.

Stop dosing the 2 part. This is because we will be finding out how much Kalk. Dosing will give bad results.
Test your alk. Write it down.
Start the Kalk top off. 24 hours later test the alk. Don't worry about calcium... It gets dosed equally with alk. Don't chase ph number either.
After you test alk, write it down again. Did it go up or down? Down means not enough Kalk, up means to much.
Go another 24 hours of you want and test again. Up or down? Keep doing this until you find your spot when it stays the same. Then you can go a couple months not worrying where the alk is.

You just have to test everyday until you find that spot and when you do, you can adjust the calcium part with the 2 part you have been using.
Hth

 

[Ferrell]

One thing to note is that for those that use kalk on an on-going basis generally use a dosing pump to add it to the tank in an amount that is calculated to be less than the minimum amount of evaporation so that the specific gravity doesn't go down (i.e., they "dose" kalk and use an ATO).

Doing it this way allows one to calculate the amount of kalk necessary to at least partially make up for the alkalinity demand of one's aquarium without actually exceeding it.

I do the kalk dosing and make up the difference with two part

 

[Ferrell]

I read through the post and have a solution for you.
I dosed Kalk for a couple years in my top of at 1tsp per gallon.
Go as you plan with 1tsp to the 5 gallons. Mix in a different container as others had said and pour the clear water in the top of container. I used to mix it the night before and the next morning put it in.

Stop dosing the 2 part. This is because we will be finding out how much Kalk. Dosing will give bad results.
Test your alk. Write it down.
Start the Kalk top off. 24 hours later test the alk. Don't worry about calcium... It gets dosed equally with alk. Don't chase ph number either.
After you test alk, write it down again. Did it go up or down? Down means not enough Kalk, up means to much.
Go another 24 hours of you want and test again. Up or down? Keep doing this until you find your spot when it stays the same. Then you can go a couple months not worrying where the alk is.

You just have to test everyday until you find that spot and when you do, you can adjust the calcium part with the 2 part you have been using.
Hth

That is assuming evaporation rate is the same. That is why I dose it. Input of a known quantity and strength. I mix mine in a gallon jug and siphon off the top clear liquid into my dosing container. No sediment

 

[mattzang]

I read through the post and have a solution for you.
I dosed Kalk for a couple years in my top of at 1tsp per gallon.
Go as you plan with 1tsp to the 5 gallons. Mix in a different container as others had said and pour the clear water in the top of container. I used to mix it the night before and the next morning put it in.

Stop dosing the 2 part. This is because we will be finding out how much Kalk. Dosing will give bad results.
Test your alk. Write it down.
Start the Kalk top off. 24 hours later test the alk. Don't worry about calcium... It gets dosed equally with alk. Don't chase ph number either.
After you test alk, write it down again. Did it go up or down? Down means not enough Kalk, up means to much.
Go another 24 hours of you want and test again. Up or down? Keep doing this until you find your spot when it stays the same. Then you can go a couple months not worrying where the alk is.

You just have to test everyday until you find that spot and when you do, you can adjust the calcium part with the 2 part you have been using.
Hth

yeah i've kinda been doing that already. i should've done the daily testing when i started dosing, or prior to, but i hate testing so.. i gotta touch the hot pan before i learn.

i've been testing alk daily for a few days now and then hopefully i'll have a better idea of what to dose than before.

the issue seems like if i try to use kalk solely for alk/calcium dosing is my evaporation varies quite a bit and idk how i'd really measure it. my ato isn't completely covered so i lose plenty of RODI water to evaporation. i was just hoping to maybe go from dosing a few mls of 2 part per day and get a pH boost to boot. so whenever my alk gets down to 9, i might give kalk a go again at 1 tsp per 5 gallons and see what that does for a couple of days.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

That's very interesting. So, in the summer time when it gets warmer and muggier, not only am I evaporating less and topping off w less RODI... the RODI top off I am using has the potential to hold less Kalk than it did over the winter?

Yes.

 

[Dburr1014]

That is assuming evaporation rate is the same. That is why I dose it. Input of a known quantity and strength. I mix mine in a gallon jug and siphon off the top clear liquid into my dosing container. No sediment

Yes assuming that it is the same. But, I also noted it will need to be checked after it's stable every couple months, this is for seasonal changes. OP will never have a massive swing with Kalk dripping in general but will need to monitor every so often as with any method he uses.

 

[Dburr1014]

yeah i've kinda been doing that already. i should've done the daily testing when i started dosing, or prior to, but i hate testing so.. i gotta touch the hot pan before i learn.

i've been testing alk daily for a few days now and then hopefully i'll have a better idea of what to dose than before.

the issue seems like if i try to use kalk solely for alk/calcium dosing is my evaporation varies quite a bit and idk how i'd really measure it. my ato isn't completely covered so i lose plenty of RODI water to evaporation. i was just hoping to maybe go from dosing a few mls of 2 part per day and get a pH boost to boot. so whenever my alk gets down to 9, i might give kalk a go again at 1 tsp per 5 gallons and see what that does for a couple of days.

To test daily top off, can't you daily mark the container? Same time daily... Then you can figure your average daily amount.

 

[BeejReef]

To test daily top off, can't you daily mark the container? Same time daily... Then you can figure your average daily amount.

Depends on how temp controlled your house is. If you're an "open windows" type, the humidity and temp has a big effect on evaporation. Especially true if you cool your tank with a fan.

 

[Dburr1014]

But he could still get his average. And the amount of kalk wouldn't be changing that much too worry about it.

 

[mattzang]

To test daily top off, can't you daily mark the container? Same time daily... Then you can figure your average daily amount.

i suppose it'd give me a ballpark average, but like i said, the ato isn't fully covered so i lose a lot of topoff water to evaporation itself so not all of it is actual tank evaporation. then when it's not stupid hot here i have my windows and doors open most of the night and early mornings, but then close it up when it's hot. but in a few weeks it'll be 100-110 here and my house will be entirely closed up

do you guys use one of those pH pens? i'm still a little concerned about my pH going too high and would like to have a better idea of where it is throughout the day and doing the salifert test on the hour is a bit much

 

[Ecvernon]

hello, so about two weeks ago I started doing kalkwasser in my ATO container. I started with 3 teaspoons to about 4 gallons of RODI. slightly more than the 1/2 teaspoon per gallon, but i have a bunch of corals in my tank and i had been dosing bionic 2 part at about 6 ml/s a day. after my last water change (plus starting kalkwasser) i noticed my alk had jumped from about mid 8s to about high 9s, so i stopped dosing the two part. i got busy this week and from when i last tested (high 9s monday) to this morning my alk is now 11.8 , so i added a couple gallons of RODI to my ATO without any kalk. so uhh, my question is, what the heck?!? do i even try doing 1/2 teaspoon per RODI gallon or is my tank just not eating up enough alk to do kalk?

also, i don't have an apex or anything to monitor pH, but i tested that this morning and it was somewhere between the 8.4 and the 8.6 on a salifert test (this was before my lights even went on). how accurate are those tests and how bad is a pH that high? is there some way to do kalk without it jacking my pH up that high? I won't lie, i rarely ever tested pH before i was doing kalk because short of opening doors and windows and running a refugium i didn't really have a way to mess with it so i didn't test and left it alone. before doing kalk i tested it a few times at different times of the day and it was generally in the 7.9/8.0ish range, so i figured i could do better there.

should i just dump out my ATO container and go back to dosing 2 part? i have had some coral issues lately, but i also recently got into trying to do acros, so i kinda chalked that up to just not knowing what i'm doing with them yet. issues including RTN of one acro, STN of another, and just recently my strawberry shortcake looked like it bleached, but not like RTN. it was fast (overnight), but didn't look bleach white like the RTN one did, but definitely lost color and looks like better days might not be ahead.

oh and last parameters check:

alk today: 11.8
calcium last weekend: 419
magnesium a couple weeks ago: 1380
nitrates 10~
phosphates were .04 a couple weeks ago
temp: 78-80

The first thing that stuck out to me was that your consumption of alkalinity and calcium was only 6ml of Bionic daily. That is not much. With that low of consumption you could get away with kalkwasser alone or Bionic. For ease of use I would just choose 1 method until your consumption goes up. Then use kalk to supplement when growth increases

 

[Dburr1014]

i suppose it'd give me a ballpark average, but like i said, the ato isn't fully covered so i lose a lot of topoff water to evaporation itself so not all of it is actual tank evaporation. then when it's not stupid hot here i have my windows and doors open most of the night and early mornings, but then close it up when it's hot. but in a few weeks it'll be 100-110 here and my house will be entirely closed up

do you guys use one of those pH pens? i'm still a little concerned about my pH going too high and would like to have a better idea of where it is throughout the day and doing the salifert test on the hour is a bit much

You should cover the ATO tank especially if you start using Kalk.

 

[mattzang]

lol. first time i've really gotten a bad deal on offerup so it is what it is, but i need to find something that can fit on there i guess

so on the 6 mLs, idk if i'd take that as super true. i was more winging it with the bionic medicine cups they give you. i was trying to keep it a little below the 7.5 mL line, but when i was doing that i ran out of alkalinity reagent and didn't test for a couple of weeks and my alk dropped from 9ish to 7.8 so that wasn't enough apparently.

i've been testing alk daily and i think i'll keep it up for a couple weeks because i've been trying to wing it too much and want to get it dialed in. my reading the last few days:
6/15: 11.2
6/16: 11.5 (stopped kalk that day)
6/17: 10.8
6/18: 10.6
6/19: 10.3
6/20: 9.8

 

[Glenn Siegel]

Just a thought for those who mentioned the kalkwasser settling on the bottom of the ATO. I just started using this in mine and put paid small powerhead on the bottom to keep the water stirred and the kalk from settling on the bottom

 

[Dburr1014]

Just a thought for those who mentioned the kalkwasser settling on the bottom of the ATO. I just started using this in mine and put paid small powerhead on the bottom to keep the water stirred and the kalk from settling on the bottom

Hmmm, but you want the Kalk to settle out. You don't want that stuff to go into the tank. This is why it's mixed in another container and the clear poured into the ATO container.