Kessil 360we...Time to throw in the towel?

[Mattrg02]

Hi all,
When is it time to decide a light isn't cutting it? What signs would indicate that the output isn't enough?

I've been running kessils for a few months now. All of my acros are very disappointing in that their color is gone and have near zero growth. I switched from an a160 to a 360we. This is over a 17g tank.

Now, I used to run a diy led using old 3w cree leds for a total of 24. My old tank had bad algae issues and low flow. I rarely did water changes yet my sps corals grew out of control. They would stn and then quickly recover.

I was such a jerk to that tank. I'd let hair algea grow all over an acro before pulling it off. They would stn and then grow back.

Now, I've pumped a lot of $$$ into this thing with an mp10 and kessil lighting plus controller and have been watching brown outs and slow deaths.

The only thing I can think of is the light. Corals start nice from the LFS and then turn brown a week later.

What signs do you guys look for before deciding a light is the problem? I see a lot of people rave over kessil, but NONE ever admit to only having lps and soft corals. Maybe an easy sps such as montipora. Never any high light demanding acroporas.

The only sps that has any color is a PC rainbow frag that went from red to metallic green.

 

[slip66]

Shallow setup, lights are 20% intensity peak.

I dunno, some of mine have been slow but it seems like it's mostly as they are still building their base. The one below is starting to really take off. Nothing too high end in my tank so maybe it depends on what you have.

My Plum crazies have never done anything but brown out on me.

I think this was in March.

01 sept

01 Feb

01 Aug pooling out still, this guy seems like he is still growing his base out before shooting up.

01 aug new digi color hasn't come in really but I'm getting growth.

01 sept

 

[Pfisherman]

i bet that a 250w hqi with a hamilton 14k bulb would make your sps happy for lighting. T5 and MH lighting are way better than LED in the long run. im seriously considering 2 black box leds with 4 bulbs of 54w t5 on my 75 im about to start. led alone just doest keep colors or grow sps the way good old school lights can. they sure sip electric though.

 

[Mattrg02]

i bet that a 250w hqi with a hamilton 14k bulb would make your sps happy for lighting. T5 and MH lighting are way better than LED in the long run. im seriously considering 2 black box leds with 4 bulbs of 54w t5 on my 75 im about to start. led alone just doest keep colors or grow sps the way good old school lights can. they sure sip electric though.

See that's the thing though.... My old diy ghetto led light DID grow sps corals great! It was just a mix of cool white and royal blue. 72w total. No optics either.

I could abuse the crap out of my tank and my corals grew and KEPT their colors nicely. Nothing like a happy tyree subset montipora encrusting an entire rock to brighten your day!

I'm set on LEDs, but beginning to wonder if it's true that kessil sucks for sps.

 

[jduck]

Pc rainbow turning green is a sign that intensity needs to be turned up

 

[Pfisherman]

See that's the thing though.... My old diy ghetto led light DID grow sps corals great! It was just a mix of cool white and royal blue. 72w total. No optics either.

I could abuse the crap out of my tank and my corals grew and KEPT their colors nicely. Nothing like a happy tyree subset montipora encrusting an entire rock to brighten your day!

I'm set on LEDs, but beginning to wonder if it's true that kessil sucks for sps.

yeah i get that, maybe a few people here and there that have long term success but its hard to say sincd there is such a high turnover rate in reefing. so many go balls out buying the best stuff and six months later its up for sale since they dont have time or their wife hates it or they give up

 

[joshkirkland83]

What is the setting on your kessils? How high above the tank are they? Whats the dimensions on your tank?

 

[Nano sapiens]

Your previously neglected tank grew SPS because of sufficient nutrients as well as sufficient light intensity for the coral to use for color and growth. I can get much faster growth when I go on vacation for two weeks (no weekly water changes) and with an auto-feeder set up (more feeding), but then I also get much more algae.

As mentioned, a SPS going from red to green often signifies lower light conditions. Sunset Monti will go from bright orange to a dull grey-orange and loose that metallic green sheen in the polyps. What are your nitrate and phosphate levels?

I would try slowly increasing your light intensity (no more than 5%/week) and if your nutrients are too low bring them up a bit (less water changes, more feeding...your choice).

 

[nbagnardi]

I've also read that there are issues with sps if you keep your tank too clean as well... not like visually but nutrient wise, what size water changes are you making? are you testing? did/do you have an ALK swing? are you dosing? over/under? heater poop the bed? change salts? crappy salt? clean RO? so many other factors to look at before you blame lighting. not trying to be a d*ck just playing devils advocate.

 

[popa057]

I had the same problem Kessils are great lights but I don't think they're good for sps tank in lest you have some other kind of lights mix in there

 

[ebushrow]

My first couple of thoughts are as follows:

Did you acclimate to the new light, or just replace the other light with this one? - the 360 has alot more power than your 160, so you may have shocked them with the change.

How many months have they been on the tank? - it sometimes takes things several months to acclimate to new lighting

Are you using the controller to set the intensity or the knob? - I am not sure how accurate it is with the knob opposed to the controller. - you might also be using the wrong contrast with the knob . i.e. not enough or too much blue.

The final thought is nutrients....maybe not enough to make the corals happy as has been mentioned above.

 

[FarmerTy]

I've yet to see a local tank in Austin running kessils that has had any luck with SPS or if they did, had lots of complaints about shadowing and color reproduction. I've never ran one myself so my own personal experience is moot but I got a whole tank full of SPS that love my 400-watt MH and my Ocean Revive T247 LED fixtures.

 

[Salty_Box_Reef]

I have yet to see any tank in person with led's only that looks as good as mh or t5. I ran kessils cause I loved the look, but ultimately had to add t5's to get the growth and color I wanted. I am currently buying equipment to setup a 120g and Ill be running the same thing again but this time a ap700 with 4-6 t5's.

With that said, I never had issues with color other than deep reds, oranges and purples, and that was just that I wasn't getting them exactly where I wanted, but they still looked good. It was only growth that I wasn't getting. I would try a slow acclimation period and add in more white than blue till you hit your peak white, then start adding blue. something like 15%w 15%b, then 20/17, 25/20, 30/23, 35/25, then leave the white where it is and start adding blue. Also raise it up to like 12-15". Its a small tank so shadowing shouldn't be as big of a deal if its higher up.

 

[Mattrg02]

My nitrates are between 5-10ppm. Phosphates are 0.00 on Hanna but I've got brown algea on the sides. Nutrients should be there....

Let's assume water quality is spot on, when should one expect to see that their light just isn't going to cut it? I'm currently at 60% intensity over a 17g tank. I've taken a month to get there.

I can keep upping intensity, or just sell it and go for another led fixture.

 

[Salty_Box_Reef]

60% seems high to me. How high do you have the kessil? I never ran over 50%w/70%b over a 30g tank and never had issues with sps. That was about 8" up.

 

[Mattrg02]

60% seems high to me. How high do you have the kessil? I never ran over 50%w/70%b over a 30g tank and never had issues with sps. That was about 8" up.

Kessil is about 8-9in off the water. My corals are about 10in below water surface.

 

[Salty_Box_Reef]

I don't think your light is the problem. Particularly since the tank is so small. Sounds like your about ready to try something else regardless though. I would suggest the xr15w pro if your sticking with led's.

 

[Mattrg02]

I don't think your light is the problem. Particularly since the tank is so small. Sounds like your about ready to try something else regardless though. I would suggest the xr15w pro if your sticking with led's.

I may try upping the intensity some more before I quit kessil. It sure LOOKS bright, where people say it looks dim.

It would be great to see examples of kessil ONLY tanks with thriving acroporas, not the easier montiporas and what not.

 

[SifuMemphis]

I've used 2x Kessil 360we for a while, running at 100% and didn't see the coral growth / coloring that I wanted. I recently just ordered 2 Radion Xr30 pros for my tank. 3 out of the 4 lfs in my area all recommended radions over Kessils, as well as a few friends I know. I figured I'll give the Radions a shot. Plus you get more customization

 

[FoD]

I am using 3 360's (will be getting a 4th). After seeing ZERO SPS tasks running solely Kessils, I knew I would need supplementing light. I am running 6 54w T5's and a 48" ReefBrite XHO. Tank just got setup, so no corals inside yet. I like the look of the Kessils, and they are the ONLY LED that cut through the T5's and I still get the MH shimmer that I missed when I went T5.