Kessils Tapped Out

AllSignsPointToFish · Mar 21, 2016

I have a 125 gallon tank with three Kessil A360WEs on it. I've got a mix of SPS, LPS, and a few softies. I do not yet have any Acropora, but I would like to try some in the future. I realized this weekend that all my corals look pretty happy and are growing, but my Kessils are completely tapped out with respect to intensity. I run the intensity at 100% for about 8 hours a day. I don't have a controller yet, so I haven't been ramping up the intensity. The blue runs about 60% (eyeball guess).

I guess my concern would be that if I have to run these lights already at full intensity, would that be enough light for Acropora? If not, does anyone have any suggestions on what lighting to add next? I've been thinking about supplementing with T5s, but I really like the Kessil shimmer, and I've heard T5s ruin the skimmer. Thoughts?

AllSignsPointToFish · Mar 21, 2016

I guess I could always increase the photoperiod, but longer is not the same as higher intensity.

TheEngineer · Mar 21, 2016

Have you checked your levels with a PAR meter?

AllSignsPointToFish · Mar 21, 2016

Have not had a chance to get my buddy to come over with his PAR meter to map my tank.

TheEngineer · Mar 21, 2016

Kessils are not PAR monsters, but the numbers I've seen would indicate they can grow most anything. I'd check your numbers before making any changes.

AllSignsPointToFish · Mar 21, 2016

Cool. Thanks.

cmac330 · Mar 21, 2016

On Kessil fixtures the color temp has little effect on PUR (far more important than PAR) as it is determined by the intensity on their fixtures. This is one of the key features of their features as it allows you to pick the color temperature you prefer independent of how much light your corals will receive. I am assuming the tank is a 6' 125g. If it is then I can say with some pretty strong certainty that you will almost certainly fail to have success with Acropora (success is not the same as them living!).

I have that Acropora tend to struggle under this form factor of Kessil. I have not tried the Ap700 yet, and it is truly a different fixture vs being two A360 on one platform like many believe. The issues with the pendant fixtures is that they simply are not all that much light and they are a small point source. Acros and nems tend to need to be very close to the center of the light and very high up to have much of a chance. They seem to slowly lose color and while some species will grow it is not at any respectable rate. As a general rule I have found that a 2' x 2' area needs 2-3 kessils in order to fully light the area enough to keep acros colored and growing. This also allows for better crossover to reduce shadowing which causes acros to have poor growth patterns which keep them from truly looking their best and can result in health issues if they do grow compact enough to shade themselves.

If the tank is a 4' 125g I would recommend 6 Kessils to keep acros, if it is 6' then I would recommend 8. As you know this is a significant cost to add to the tank and may not be the best route, but after 3 years of playing with Kessil pendant fixtures these kind of numbers are the only way I have found success with Acropora with Kessil only lighting (Note: For sustaining frags in a frag tank this changes, but that is not what you are looking to do).

2 other options:

2 AI Hydra 52 HD's (or radion gen 3 pros) to add punch and spread to the Kessils without detracting as much from the shimmer. (still pretty pricey as you can get 3 more kessil for the same price)

My personal recommendation: Add 2-4 T5 bulbs (if two I would go ATI purple plus and coral plus to really add the punch in the spectrum LED miss) 4 would give you the best success. With 4 bulbs you could get away with only having the T5s on for 4 hours (preferably coming on 2 hours after the Kessils come on) which would allow you to have most of your viewing time with just the Kessils (I personally would still run them 6 but I think you would be more than ok at 4). With the 2 bulb I would highly recommend the T5s to be on for 6 hour coming on no longer than 1 hour after the Kessils. Keep in mind if you add T5s you will need to slowly ramp up how long they are on to acclimate your current corals to the extra light.

Important Notes:
+Kessils intensity knob is far more important than the color knob
+++Corals do the majority of their photosynthesis in a 6 hour period, having the light on longer does nothing for photosynthesis and will only affect coral behavior (some effects are good some bad depending on how much longer) if lights are left on for too long at midday intensity sps in particular seem to bleach within a few days.
+When adding new lights it is not recommended to add any new corals until existing are acclimated to the new light. Newly added corals are stressed enough acclimating to a new environment without changing that environment substantially. Adding extra lighting can cause changes by causing existing corals to stress which can make them more susceptible to disease, parasites or releasing toxins (leathers/zoas especially on this) which can make life hard on new tank additions. Extra lighting can cause bacterial, algal blooms or other microorganism blooms which can significantly impact new additions.
+I would recommend waiting a month to add new corals once the extra lighting is added.

BkReefBaby · Mar 21, 2016

Kessils can grow anything, don't be fooled. There's a thread on here specifically showing Kessil growing sps but I agree with the other post supplement with T5. I had Kessil and switch to MH/t5 I will be going back to Kessil and T5 on my next build

Salty1962 · Mar 21, 2016

I don't run Kessils but I do run an Aquaticlife XS series LEDs with an Aquaticlife quad T5 and the T5s don't inhibit the shimmer of my LEDs. They actually compliment the LEDs by filling in the shadows created by the LEDs. JME

AllSignsPointToFish · Mar 21, 2016

I kind of logically deduced that I'd need to supplement if I can run the lights on full intensity and still grow softies and LPS as well as the SPS I've purchased and what came on the live rock.

tweeter · Mar 21, 2016

I have the 360 and 350's on my 55 gallon, and successfully grow acropora's. Have had them on this tank for nearly 4 yrs. Would not have anything else!

AllSignsPointToFish · Mar 21, 2016

I've also been considering adding four A160s to fill in the gaps between the three A360s. At least I could control color and intensity on those four independently from the other Kessils. Plus, the A160s are a little cheaper than the A360s.

Terry4505 · Mar 21, 2016

I am running 3 A360W-es and 4 T5s over my 6' 180 and SPS is growing like crazy. I run the Kessils from 6am-10pm with a slow ramp to 80% and the t5s from 9am-5pm.

AllSignsPointToFish · Mar 21, 2016

Gorgeous tank! Looks like you're running the 72" T5s? I've been looking at those as well. What bulbs do you run?

Terry4505 · Mar 21, 2016

Thank you. 60", ATI- Blue+, Coral+ (x2) and Fiji Pink

Reeflogic · Mar 21, 2016

I've had my 2x 360WE's over a 110 (48" x 24") for almost 2 years. I'm just now starting to get more SPS again, but my reef consists of LPS and softies, 10+ BTA's. I run mine through my Apex and ramp up to midday intensity for 4 or so hours and then ramp back down, having them on from 10 am to 10 pm. For the first year I felt I needed the intensity to be 100%, but the last 3 months I dialed them back down to 80% and my corals look better. These lights can be deceiving. I'm in the process of adding T5 retro's (as soon as I'm finished building my canopy).

I have two issues with Kessil 360's... The first being shadows, which most people have already determined T5 supplement fixes this and my other issue is the "Windex Blue" look... Several threads show people adding supplement LED or T5 to correct it. I like more of a crisp white MH look with good "pop", you cannot get this with just the Kessils running, it's either too white or too blue, so T5 is my solution!!

Before I moved cross country, I had several small SPS colonies, some acros, etc. and they all did well with just the 2 Kessils; however, they were small, so shadowing wasn't really an issue at that time. I knew eventually I would need more lights. @Terry4505 's tank inspired me to do the T5 supplement, I just wish I still had my old Maristar T5/MH fixture to do what he did!!! That tank is awesome!!

cmac330 · Mar 21, 2016

I would like to reiterate that I did not dispute wether or not Kessils pendants can grow Acros, as they definitely can, but simply that it takes a considerable amount of fixtures or supplementation to grow them well (thriving and surviving are very different things). The A160's should work with four them as they are also more than half of a 360 and as you stated you should achieve the appropriate coverage/spread. It is easier to have too many LED's and turn them down than too few and watch the coral slowly struggle over time. When getting into acros it is often cheaper to have a quality setup then to lose color and growth, and definitely saves some headache.

srad750c · Mar 22, 2016

I have 2 Kessil A360WE on 90gal, have not been able to run over 75%, I burned some mushrooms, polyps and LPS before I figured it out. Currently they ramp up from 10% to 70% for 3 hrs and back down to 5%. Photoperiod is 14 hrs. My only problem is coverage and they don't show colors of corals very well. Too blue or white as mentioned above. Will probably supplement with T5.

Overall I'm very satisfied. Too bad they came out with Ap700 4 months after I bought mine

, would have liked to try it out. Would be nice if they put the AP700 LED cluster in A360WE fixture

.

1stNoel · Mar 22, 2016

I have Kessil A360WEs on my frag tank. My acros love it and are growing nicely. My cyphastreas have been bleaching under them, so I keep them away from direct light.

I also have Kessil AP700S over my display tank, but it just finished cycling...so I can't report anything on it yet.