Kessils Tapped Out
- Thread starter AllSignsPointToFish
- Start date
- Tagged users None
srad750c
Well-Known Member
Forgot to mention that my SPS, LOVE my Kessils, after they adjust, they start growing very well. Takes me about a month to acclimate them, after that they take off. Most of my SPS are less than a year old but a big difference after about 2-3 months under the Kessils.
DMan
Active Member
I will elaborate a bit. If you go on the Kessil facebook page I'm all over them.
Ill start by saying the fixture doesn't do what the Kessil web site says it does. There is no full control of each color channel. So you cannot create customized colors. The is no way to create a nice smooth ramping transition of spectrums. When your program changes colors it snaps to the next spectrum. The acclamation mode doesn't work properly. As soon as you enable the acclamation mode it for some reason uses the acclamation template. The effects are garbage and useless. Kessil can't even get the cloud effect to work properly. And the general functionality really sucks. For instance. If you create a program and for whatever reason you want to edit that program it doesn't seem to erase the old programming. I've noticed this with spectrum/intensity as well as effects. Example......I programmed some cloud periods during the day, but ended up not liking it so I deleted those effect points. According to the program there are no clouds programmed but come that time, guess what the clouds are still running. I had to erase the entire program and start a new template. I'm not even going to get into the whole ipad, iphone( which there isn't one), and the Android app (still in beta. ) Give me a break Kessil, I want my money back. As far as I'm concerned Kessil are crooks. And I will go out of my way to dissuade fellow reefers from making a $1000 mistake like I did.
Ill start by saying the fixture doesn't do what the Kessil web site says it does. There is no full control of each color channel. So you cannot create customized colors. The is no way to create a nice smooth ramping transition of spectrums. When your program changes colors it snaps to the next spectrum. The acclamation mode doesn't work properly. As soon as you enable the acclamation mode it for some reason uses the acclamation template. The effects are garbage and useless. Kessil can't even get the cloud effect to work properly. And the general functionality really sucks. For instance. If you create a program and for whatever reason you want to edit that program it doesn't seem to erase the old programming. I've noticed this with spectrum/intensity as well as effects. Example......I programmed some cloud periods during the day, but ended up not liking it so I deleted those effect points. According to the program there are no clouds programmed but come that time, guess what the clouds are still running. I had to erase the entire program and start a new template. I'm not even going to get into the whole ipad, iphone( which there isn't one), and the Android app (still in beta. ) Give me a break Kessil, I want my money back. As far as I'm concerned Kessil are crooks. And I will go out of my way to dissuade fellow reefers from making a $1000 mistake like I did.
DMan
Active Member
I've been using Kessil for years. 350, 360s and a ap700. Never been able to grow a single sps under them. Under my Radion though, even damaged sps come back and rebound.
IMO Kessil sucks, and I'll never spend another dime on their products.
DMan
Active Member
Sorry for the negativity. As you can tell I'm pretty upset about it. I still think the 350 is one of the best lights Kessil ever produced, and ill always have it up over a nano.
As for the ap700, if it turns out to be a bad unit, I will publicly apologize and retract everything I've ever said about Kessil. I doubt this is the case though.
Rather I believe Kessil rushed the release of the ap700. There were clearly problems with the functionality of it.
I will give credit where it is due. And Kessil does deserve credit for a couple of things. 1) the cooling system Kessil uses is top of the line. Proprietary, liquid cooled, there isn't another unit out there like it. 2) I've said it before and ill say it again, Kessil is able to get the light from the fixture into the water like no one else. Hence the "Kessil shimmer".
Now if Kessil could get the functionality and programmability of say an Ecotech Radion, and keep their blend of shimmer and reflector. Now that would be one killer light.
I guess I'm so disappointed because I had the choice of either a Kessil or a Radion. Having used both I based my choice on the specs and release notes made available by Kessil. And frankly i feel like I was lied to.
srad750c
Well-Known Member
WOW, never had any of these issues, my corals grow very good. You must have a bad unit. I have had mine about a year. No problems. I use a Kessil Spectral Controller and mine work great. I don't do any of that fancy stuff, just ramp up, hold and ramp down. As far as the AP700, I don't know anything but I never buy any equipment until it's been on market at least for a year or two. Sorry to hear this, hope you get it worked out. I would Love to try Ecotech but way out of my price range
, I have 2 other expensive hobbies
. Please keep us posted 'cause I almost started to buy one in a couple of months.
, I have 2 other expensive hobbies. Please keep us posted 'cause I almost started to buy one in a couple of months.
Reeflogic
Powered by KGB
I mentioned in my earlier post that I had 2 complaints about my Kessils, I should have said 3, but I guess I've learned to live with the 3rd issue... The fact that the intensity stops at 12-14% has always bothered me. Would be nice to have a 1% moonlight effect and a TRUE sunrise / sunset. I overlooked this because the Kessil shimmer and my experience with coral growth has far outweighed the weird intensity issue.
Don't feel sorry for posting your experience with a product, especially one that costs near a grand. If they sell for the same amount as other "high-end" comparable products, it should be polished. I'm kind of hoping your situation is an isolated one, and maybe they will send you a new unit, but if not, it's definitely a red flag and needs to be addressed!
Don't feel sorry for posting your experience with a product, especially one that costs near a grand. If they sell for the same amount as other "high-end" comparable products, it should be polished. I'm kind of hoping your situation is an isolated one, and maybe they will send you a new unit, but if not, it's definitely a red flag and needs to be addressed!
DMan
Active Member
WOW, never had any of these issues, my corals grow very good. You must have a bad unit. I have had mine about a year. No problems. I use a Kessil Spectral Controller and mine work great. I don't do any of that fancy stuff, just ramp up, hold and ramp down. As far as the AP700, I don't know anything but I never buy any equipment until it's been on market at least for a year or two. Sorry to hear this, hope you get it worked out. I would Love to try Ecotech but way out of my price range
Sorry if I confused. My A350 (my favorite Kessil light) and my 2 A360w work flawlessly. I control them with my apex. The issue I have is with the ap700.
Basically I started this new system in Aug 2015. I already had the a350 and 360s but I wanted to upgrade. I chose poorly ( as the Knight said to Indiana Jones, in the Holy Grail).
Waxhaw reefer
Community Member
I'm not an expert, but had a 36 gallon with max spect, did alright, snail problem in my overflow, water blew my transformer quickly found 4 bulb t5, corals did much better, new 55 gallon, two kessil 360 and supplement with two single t5 blue plus, because I missed the shimmer, both at 12" above tank and acros growing well at 80% max, just like to say that after two months I noticed something under the glass of the Kessils, maybe dust I don't know, I called them to ask about taking apart to clean the glass, they told me that would void the warranty, send us a pic they said, I did then they send me two brand new ones to replace those as long as I send the old two back! How is that for costumer service, !!
BigJim
Well-Known Member
I am running 3 Kessil 360 WE lights on a 72x24x21 tank. The tank is fairly shallow and I have them about 8 inches from the water surface. I run them at 60% color and 75% intensity. The tank has only had coral in it for about three months. I have mostly SPS and they are growing and showing good coloration. Not every coral is growing like crazy but it's tought to keep every coral happy. Shadowing is definitely an issue and you have to strategically place your corals because of it. I am thinking about adding some T5s in the future to help out with that. Here are some pictures of my tank. Most of the corals are still frags and mini colonies but they are growing.
BC Glowstik on 1/3/16
BC Glowstik on 2/28/16
BC Glowstik on 1/3/16
BC Glowstik on 2/28/16
zoomonster
Valuable Member
This pic's a little old but you get the idea.
I've pretty much done the whole lighting evolution since I started my first tank in late 1989. I took a break a few years and put up a 6ft 200g DSA going on two years ago. I considered LED but ultimately went what I knew best 3x250MH and 4 T5's. I'll leave it at the results were outstanding in terms of growth and color. What ultimately did me in was combo of things. Heat, heat, heat and heat. I got by just fine w/o a chiller but this was a new house I bought just before the tank. The tank is in a large great family room+kitchen+eat in area with vaulted ceilings. The AC unit is properly sized for the house but not much is properly sized for FL and the heat just compounded during summer hell months. So that made for an uncomfortable room, tank temps bordering on too high and electric bills through the ceiling at 500-600. Add to that the power demand on the circuit and had the breaker got too hot a few times in heat of summer and tripped.
So I mulled a solution and eventually went with Kessil A360WE. I ordered three based on the coverage area and nearly went into a panic when I turned them on. Lets just say compared to MH/T5 the tank was too dark, waaaaay too much shimmer (enough to cause vertigo staring at it with lots of flow) and shadow. My tanks center section has a large overflow so I ordered two more lights. The left/right ends have two each and the center section one. Those are all controlled ramp up/ramp down by Apex. Some 6ft tanks would be well served by a 6th in the mid but for my setup it brought shimmer back to more natural MH like and did away with much of the shadowing. I have mostly SPS with some LPS, softies, ricordia and zoa's. Overall growth and coloration kept up with the old fixture and no real noticeable change. The only thing I really burned were a couple zoanthid colonies. No wipe out but they still to this day don't like the Kessil's which I assume is the amount of UV. Overall pretty happy but I have to admit a little gremlin in the corner of my mind keeps saying switch back to MH/T5 which I might if I ever put in a larger AC and/or chiller or heat duct the light. Couple thoughts...
1) A 24"x24" section is best served by at least 2 A360WE's (at least for SPS). Maybe that rating is ok in a 24x24 cube with little rock.
2) Not MH/T5 but they do quite well at color and growth. The goosenecks work best for my setup and they have the benefit of offering easy light height, angle and small adjustments for shadowing.
3) With goosenecks and long cable to my Apex they cost more than 2x my Hamilton fixture with eballasts.
4) 5 lights at full power suck a total of 450w which is less than half the MH/T5 and no real heat. Needless to say the power savings were real and I think I pay about $320 now on budget. I ramp up 9-12am at 14-80 power/0-68 color and ramp down 7-10pm at 80-30/68-0. I think I peak at 3.6 amps vs. something like 3x that for the old fixture.
5) Buy from an authorized US dealer so the 1 year warranty gets doubled. Not really had any issues other than I have one now going back for replacement because it has a common issue of flickering.
6) My real issue with LED is something they almost all have in common which is lack of diffused light like you get with fixtures with reflectors and MH/T5 bulbs that put out 360 light. The real issue there is corals either losing color on the bottom or dying from the bottom. Bushy acro's are of course the most affected. If I can figure a way to put in some T5's with this setup I think it would be so much better.
7) I do believe with these lights simpler is better and you really don't hear about people torching corals too much like with some fixture that have a multitude of led colors to adjust and kill stuff with. UV remains constant per power level and all you really have to worry about is setting a color you like and power levels. Do be sure to acclimate up with power levels as the intensity is deceiving. I probably started too high (for some zoa's) and eventually went something like 60->80. Even with a 27" deep aquarium don't think I will ever go to 100% power. Too much UV IMO.
I've pretty much done the whole lighting evolution since I started my first tank in late 1989. I took a break a few years and put up a 6ft 200g DSA going on two years ago. I considered LED but ultimately went what I knew best 3x250MH and 4 T5's. I'll leave it at the results were outstanding in terms of growth and color. What ultimately did me in was combo of things. Heat, heat, heat and heat. I got by just fine w/o a chiller but this was a new house I bought just before the tank. The tank is in a large great family room+kitchen+eat in area with vaulted ceilings. The AC unit is properly sized for the house but not much is properly sized for FL and the heat just compounded during summer hell months. So that made for an uncomfortable room, tank temps bordering on too high and electric bills through the ceiling at 500-600. Add to that the power demand on the circuit and had the breaker got too hot a few times in heat of summer and tripped.
So I mulled a solution and eventually went with Kessil A360WE. I ordered three based on the coverage area and nearly went into a panic when I turned them on. Lets just say compared to MH/T5 the tank was too dark, waaaaay too much shimmer (enough to cause vertigo staring at it with lots of flow) and shadow. My tanks center section has a large overflow so I ordered two more lights. The left/right ends have two each and the center section one. Those are all controlled ramp up/ramp down by Apex. Some 6ft tanks would be well served by a 6th in the mid but for my setup it brought shimmer back to more natural MH like and did away with much of the shadowing. I have mostly SPS with some LPS, softies, ricordia and zoa's. Overall growth and coloration kept up with the old fixture and no real noticeable change. The only thing I really burned were a couple zoanthid colonies. No wipe out but they still to this day don't like the Kessil's which I assume is the amount of UV. Overall pretty happy but I have to admit a little gremlin in the corner of my mind keeps saying switch back to MH/T5 which I might if I ever put in a larger AC and/or chiller or heat duct the light. Couple thoughts...
1) A 24"x24" section is best served by at least 2 A360WE's (at least for SPS). Maybe that rating is ok in a 24x24 cube with little rock.
2) Not MH/T5 but they do quite well at color and growth. The goosenecks work best for my setup and they have the benefit of offering easy light height, angle and small adjustments for shadowing.
3) With goosenecks and long cable to my Apex they cost more than 2x my Hamilton fixture with eballasts.
4) 5 lights at full power suck a total of 450w which is less than half the MH/T5 and no real heat. Needless to say the power savings were real and I think I pay about $320 now on budget. I ramp up 9-12am at 14-80 power/0-68 color and ramp down 7-10pm at 80-30/68-0. I think I peak at 3.6 amps vs. something like 3x that for the old fixture.
5) Buy from an authorized US dealer so the 1 year warranty gets doubled. Not really had any issues other than I have one now going back for replacement because it has a common issue of flickering.
6) My real issue with LED is something they almost all have in common which is lack of diffused light like you get with fixtures with reflectors and MH/T5 bulbs that put out 360 light. The real issue there is corals either losing color on the bottom or dying from the bottom. Bushy acro's are of course the most affected. If I can figure a way to put in some T5's with this setup I think it would be so much better.
7) I do believe with these lights simpler is better and you really don't hear about people torching corals too much like with some fixture that have a multitude of led colors to adjust and kill stuff with. UV remains constant per power level and all you really have to worry about is setting a color you like and power levels. Do be sure to acclimate up with power levels as the intensity is deceiving. I probably started too high (for some zoa's) and eventually went something like 60->80. Even with a 27" deep aquarium don't think I will ever go to 100% power. Too much UV IMO.
Reeflogic
Powered by KGB
Nice write-up @zoomonster , you pretty much said everything I've felt about my 360's. You didn't say much about the color, though. Since you too came from MH/T5, do you find the crisp white to be missing? If I get too white, corals appear brown or blah in appearance, if I go too blue, the tank has a Windex look. It's very hard to find the perfect mix of intensity and color, for me anyways. Sometimes I walk by the tank and say yeah that looks great, so I adjust my Apex and after a few days I feel it looks too white or too blue, so I tweak color again lol. I'm about to add T5 to mine and I'm sure that will fix my "color" issues, I just cannot seem to get true looking coral / fish colors with pop! (like I enjoyed with MH/T5)
zoomonster
Valuable Member
Colors definitely different but I guess you get used to it and yeah I just tweaked again the other day and kind of liking 68 color for daytime. Fish look good (not washed out) and corals look good. I'm pretty much a color freak and my favorite is night time where for three hours I ramp down to 0 color and 30% power and everything actinically active lights up like a neon sign. Some fish colors get washed at night but oh well. I guess a good benchmark for daytime is does my purple tang actually look purple or black. I have 32 fish (11 Anthias, 5 Angels, 2 Tangs, 10 wrasses, 2 clowns, blenny, psuedo) and they all look great during daytime. As far as MH I've mostly used 10-14k. 10k was good when I had VHO to really balance out the slightly yellow tinged light. I had 14k's in my last Hamilton with 4x T5 blue plus and color was great. So yes its a trade off and you probably won't ever realize a really crisp white daylight with great actinic pop. But as far as actinic pop I'm of the opinion that LED and Kessil's in particular have T5 and VHO beat. Pop is definitely better at night than when I had my MH shutdown and just T5. I had tried the Giesseman true actinic and didn't like those at all compared to the blue plus which pale to the Kessils.
Drew Fitzgerald
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2018
- Messages
- 16
- Reaction score
- 5
** Broken Kessil AP700 Fan not spinning Update **
Previously, I wrote that I actually have 3 Kessil AP700's. Two out of the Three have the same issues.
It started when the lights started making a humming / ticking noise.
After inspecting the unit I noticed the fan was spinning very weakly and not blowing out much air.
Eventually, the fan would just stop. This made the light switch off because it was overheating.
After searching for advice online, it appears to be a common issue with these lights.
Now, before people jump in and say "did I try using compressed air to blow out the dust" or "have I tried using WD40" or even "take the unit apart and give it a really good clean"...Yes, I did all of this and maybe it helped for a while but a few weeks later the same issue would happen again.
Clearly, the fan needed to be replaced.
I reached out to Kessil and they explained that the fans could not, in fact, be replaced!! They also explained that as the lights were also no longer under warranty, I would need to replace the whole unit...Sorry, both units!!
For such an expensive light I was shocked that a light unit, that retails for £800-£900 would need replacing because a £20 fan stopped spinning?
Anyway, I was not about to bin the lights due to a fan problem, and seeing I am not a tech-savvy guy, I reached out to a computer company here in Guernsey to see if they could help to fix them.
The guy came around and looked at one of the lights and could not see a problem replacing the fan and took one of them away with him to see if he could find a solution.
Today Sam (the guy that said he might be able to replace the fans) returned the dead Kessil AP700 that had a broken/burnt-out fan.
The good news is, he did manage to replace the fan and the once dead AP700 is back up and running. What is even better, the new fan he used to replace the broken one with, actually runs the lights cooler and is very quite. So, it's even better than it was before!!
I am glad I did not poke around the unit myself as he mentioned that it was not that straightforward to get the old fan out and he also needed to micro-solder some wires and then coat them with a waterproof solution... all sounds far too "fiddly" for me.
Sam kindly documented the process for me.
Sadly, It's in a word document which I can't see how to post it here.
If anyone knows how to do it, let me know and I happily post it if it helps.
If you are having or have a having or have a dead Kessil AP700 I would strongly recommend reaching out to Sam.
If you want to reach out to Sam (the man) his company is called https://techy.gg/
Previously, I wrote that I actually have 3 Kessil AP700's. Two out of the Three have the same issues.
It started when the lights started making a humming / ticking noise.
After inspecting the unit I noticed the fan was spinning very weakly and not blowing out much air.
Eventually, the fan would just stop. This made the light switch off because it was overheating.
After searching for advice online, it appears to be a common issue with these lights.
Now, before people jump in and say "did I try using compressed air to blow out the dust" or "have I tried using WD40" or even "take the unit apart and give it a really good clean"...Yes, I did all of this and maybe it helped for a while but a few weeks later the same issue would happen again.
Clearly, the fan needed to be replaced.
I reached out to Kessil and they explained that the fans could not, in fact, be replaced!! They also explained that as the lights were also no longer under warranty, I would need to replace the whole unit...Sorry, both units!!
For such an expensive light I was shocked that a light unit, that retails for £800-£900 would need replacing because a £20 fan stopped spinning?
Anyway, I was not about to bin the lights due to a fan problem, and seeing I am not a tech-savvy guy, I reached out to a computer company here in Guernsey to see if they could help to fix them.
The guy came around and looked at one of the lights and could not see a problem replacing the fan and took one of them away with him to see if he could find a solution.
Today Sam (the guy that said he might be able to replace the fans) returned the dead Kessil AP700 that had a broken/burnt-out fan.
The good news is, he did manage to replace the fan and the once dead AP700 is back up and running. What is even better, the new fan he used to replace the broken one with, actually runs the lights cooler and is very quite. So, it's even better than it was before!!
I am glad I did not poke around the unit myself as he mentioned that it was not that straightforward to get the old fan out and he also needed to micro-solder some wires and then coat them with a waterproof solution... all sounds far too "fiddly" for me.
Sam kindly documented the process for me.
Sadly, It's in a word document which I can't see how to post it here.
If anyone knows how to do it, let me know and I happily post it if it helps.
If you are having or have a having or have a dead Kessil AP700 I would strongly recommend reaching out to Sam.
If you want to reach out to Sam (the man) his company is called https://techy.gg/
