Beautiful tank that mate!IMO I seen what happens when KH is not stable. Have durned tips when to high , losses of color or RTN and STN when the number jump around , I feel PH is not something to chance or even KH but you do need to monitor KH and keep it stable. I keep my KH around 8.5 much as possible just because my corals polyps are out more , coral color and just happier at that number. All tank are different and you should keep your number ( KH , cal , magnesium, etc ) based on your tank and what your corals are happy with. If your in-tune with your tank and engage in it should not take you long to know what your tank and coral are happy with. I know I am going to get push back for saying don’t worry about PH but never seen a good study or anyone give me a valid point to why we should chase PH. And not chased ph ever in my tank and my sps are going and have awesome color
Kh important or myth
- Thread starter Ash321
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I think that carbonate swings is the current en-vogue thing to blame losses on (this, along with building block issues (referred to as nutrient when they are not)). This will subside, IMO, since it is mostly overblown... along with dirty hands in the tank, neighbor sprayed for weeds or bugs, rusting metal that cannot be found, live rock leaching metals, old bulbs, etc. However, it is on of the main elements that corals need to create a skeleton, so it is probably a good idea to keep it somewhere in range. pH, temp and salinity and other things vary in the ocean, but calcium, carbonate and sunlight are nearly constant.
I DO TOTALLY believe that an alk swing can finish off a coral that otherwise was barely hanging on.
FWIW - in the last year, I have had my alk swing down to 3.8(ish) and 4.0(ish) with CO2 supply problems for my CaRx (bottle ran empty once and had a line break the other time). I dumped in baking soda and dowflake to bring the carbonate and calcium back up instantly... no issues with anything and that was a fast and large(er) swing. However, the corals have otherwise had stable environment and are well fed (light-wise).
You also need to choose if you want to be the rule or the exception. There is an exception to everything that can work... trying to be another exception is usually a recipe for failure, especially if you try to be an exception too often. If this dude has healthy corals, then they might be able to withstand whatever he throws at them... if you want to try and be like this guy, then do it in every phase, not just piecemeal.
I DO TOTALLY believe that an alk swing can finish off a coral that otherwise was barely hanging on.
FWIW - in the last year, I have had my alk swing down to 3.8(ish) and 4.0(ish) with CO2 supply problems for my CaRx (bottle ran empty once and had a line break the other time). I dumped in baking soda and dowflake to bring the carbonate and calcium back up instantly... no issues with anything and that was a fast and large(er) swing. However, the corals have otherwise had stable environment and are well fed (light-wise).
You also need to choose if you want to be the rule or the exception. There is an exception to everything that can work... trying to be another exception is usually a recipe for failure, especially if you try to be an exception too often. If this dude has healthy corals, then they might be able to withstand whatever he throws at them... if you want to try and be like this guy, then do it in every phase, not just piecemeal.
Thanks for the reply no i dont want to be some yt guy lol. just i was curious about kh as like you mention if any frags dies people yell must of been a kh swing and i was skeptical. as i find when i add new frags corals my kh will generally be consumed quicker so then il be tweaking it slighy . Im not talking a kh of 2 one day and 10 the next more a little drop of 1 kh in a day and not realising till you test then upping your dose to compensate.
Just interesting to see what people thought
Yes , for many years. No dosing no testing. 5g water changes of real actual fresh NSW once or twice a month in a 30 gal tank.
Decent growth , no mass die off.
Clam in the tank acro Dom. Large branching digitat and stylo and monti. As the demand got higher , the monti still grew crazy fast and actually got brittle. Not other Ill effects. That’s when I began dosing.
Fwiw , NSW is 6-7 alk.
Extremely rapid alk usage will get you in trouble. That is true.
Will Wohlers
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Op was wondering about the very latest reef builders video. I watched it today and actually wondered the exact same thing. Jake is the man. He also leads us to believe in this video that his alk is far from stable because the tank sucks up the alkaliniy. I think you guys should go watch the video.
speedstar
Well-Known Member
IMO I seen what happens when KH is not stable. Have burned tips when to high , losses of color or RTN and STN when the number jump around , I feel PH is not something to chance or even KH but you do need to monitor KH and keep it stable. I keep my KH around 8.5 much as possible just because my corals polyps are out more , coral color and just happier at that number. All tank are different and you should keep your number ( KH , cal , magnesium, etc ) based on your tank and what your corals are happy with. If your in-tune with your tank and engage in it should not take you long to know what your tank and coral are happy with. I know I am going to get push back for saying don’t worry about PH but never seen a good study or anyone give me a valid point to why we should chase PH. And not chased ph ever in my tank and my sps are growing fast and have awesome color
Great looking tank, curious I keep alk in the same range as you, do you have a slat preference that mixes close to it?
Chris04
Active Member
Use basic instant oceans and add what I need to , rather add my own additives to my salt because I know what I am adding. Rather then the company doing it and not really knowing what’s in it Just my way of doing things
Those are figures are fine for raising acros assuming you can keep them steady, keep great flow, and 250-350 PAR lighting on them. No problemo at all.
I keep pretty tight ranges around:
Kh 8.5
Ca 460
MG 1400
NO3 3-5
PO4 .03
I can't speak to how somebody else can run their KH at 6 and grow SPS, but I won't dispute that it is possible. It just does not work in my tanks.
Il be honest par is a complete guess to me i run 2 xr15 pros gen4 on about 50 8 inches above the water 2 foot deep tank.
I hope to try another acro soon maybe a slightly bigger frag give it a bit of a better chance. Also maybe not a green aussie one as i hear they can be extra fussy!
Also think of adding a mp10 soon running 3 jecabo power heads one is a crossflow rip off then extra flow from my reefocto sump pump return.
Id like to get my phos back down to 0.3 my rowa phos has been awful this time round so might change products there.
Just acros seem super sensitive but i do desperately want to keep them .
2 X XR15 will cover 3 foot width tank no problem. Four foot could work too, but you will have some cool spots. Borrowing a PAR meter would help you know better where the acros should go, and where they should not. Check your LFS or local reef club facebook group.
On your acro death... what did that dying process look like? If you think it was down to parameter swings, then the following is a wasted exercise, but...
Bleached/pale?
Go brown?
Tissue fall off? Fast or slow?
Did it have splotches of discoloration?
On your acro death... what did that dying process look like? If you think it was down to parameter swings, then the following is a wasted exercise, but...
Bleached/pale?
Go brown?
Tissue fall off? Fast or slow?
Did it have splotches of discoloration?
Epic Aquaculture
The artist formerly known as SawCJack00
If you're looking for a relatively "tough" Acro that is still beautiful and worth having in your tank, try a Bali Green Slimer. Once established and in proper conditions, they grow like weeds, and are a bright beautiful green. You can usually find them cheap or if you're in a reef club you can probably find it free.
It's never a bad idea to have stable alk, and it seems to be important. However we don't seem to know why it's important. I always bring up pico reefs in conversations about alk stability, there are many picos that have various sps including acros that have been going for years that only rely on large w/c for dosing. I myself had a pico with some acros and sps that I would do 100% w/c once a week with reef crystals. No doubt there was a large drop in alk slowly and a big spike at the end of the week.
Now pico reefs grow slow of course, and there have not been enough that we can say many species of acro and strains can grow in those conditions, but clearly many can. How and why? Is it because the coral are small or can they become acclimated to the changes? Or a combination? Do nutrient levels play a part with the fresh mix water? Does the intensity of light factor in? We just don’t know at this point.
That being said clearly stable is better, but 6 isn’t all that low and is in line natural salt water. The only downside I would see is lower pH and slower growth however that could be overcome with feedings and one might never notice.
Now pico reefs grow slow of course, and there have not been enough that we can say many species of acro and strains can grow in those conditions, but clearly many can. How and why? Is it because the coral are small or can they become acclimated to the changes? Or a combination? Do nutrient levels play a part with the fresh mix water? Does the intensity of light factor in? We just don’t know at this point.
That being said clearly stable is better, but 6 isn’t all that low and is in line natural salt water. The only downside I would see is lower pH and slower growth however that could be overcome with feedings and one might never notice.
Yeah isnt many reef clubs in wales uk isnt much of a following for acros or sps only one shop in south wales even stocks acros.
Had a growth spurt then went brown in one day and then completely bleached the next. Didnt see any discoloration before the browning .
MnFish1
10K Club member
The answer - it depends. Many times - people have a given tank with given parameters. They have coral that have adapted to those parameters even though they may not be in the 'best' condition. Sometimes people have a tank with a kH of 6 lets say and they add 10 corals and 5 die. The 5 that survive can live under those conditions. Its the same with people saying 'my nitrates are 100 but there is no problem, IMHO. The inhabitants have adapted. Adding something new to that tank might cause a problem.
So just because one person has a tank that can support 'their' inhabitants doesnt seem to suggest that that should be generalized to any other tank. Again - just my feelings - and what I've been taught over the years.
WWIII
2500 Club Member
Jake has a whole lot of experience and knowledge. I doubt he would recommend what he does with his personal tank to those trying to keep sps for the first time. He knows his tank and can spot the slightest changes. A very established tank can handle changes much better imo than a newer tank say under a couple years old.
To answer the question, I'm not really sure. While I think alkalinity is very important, we have seen tanks run anywhere from around 6 dkh to 16 dkh wifh pretty decent results. I think it's more about how it got there and the history of the tank. We have nsw values to shoot for (or slightly elevated) that have worked for thousands of years in nature, so that's why they are recommended. Once a tank is established and the owner is in tune with the tank/corals, deviations from nsw are possible with success. We see how poorly some parts of the ocean react to change. Our boxes are much smaller obviously and so that's why everyone preaches stability over actual values.
It's an interesting topic and wouldn't be the first time reefkeepers weren't exactly correct! The new alk monitors available now will help shed more light on the subject in the future.
To answer the question, I'm not really sure. While I think alkalinity is very important, we have seen tanks run anywhere from around 6 dkh to 16 dkh wifh pretty decent results. I think it's more about how it got there and the history of the tank. We have nsw values to shoot for (or slightly elevated) that have worked for thousands of years in nature, so that's why they are recommended. Once a tank is established and the owner is in tune with the tank/corals, deviations from nsw are possible with success. We see how poorly some parts of the ocean react to change. Our boxes are much smaller obviously and so that's why everyone preaches stability over actual values.
It's an interesting topic and wouldn't be the first time reefkeepers weren't exactly correct! The new alk monitors available now will help shed more light on the subject in the future.
Over the years I've tried acros many times without monitoring alk and when I did check at lfs it was low 6.7-7.0. Everytime they died within a week or so. Now I monitor alk, cal, and mag daily rarely check ph. Temp i use a contoller for and salinity only when doing water changes. I dose whats needed(dose 1&2 part daily)and have been able to keep my acros going for four months and have about a dozen now. Also my montis are growing insanely fast now with higher alk. So I do believe keeping alk at 8.5(for my tank) is working.
Stigigemla
Well-Known Member
If You have an established reef and is tired of pruning the corals You can go down in the values.
With Ca 380, Mg 1250 and kH 6.0 and a little less light You will have a much slower growth of the corals and 2 part consumption.
But the PO4 and NO3 have to be low or the corals will get brown. Ist a tricky way to go because with those values the tank is much more sensitive for value swings.
If You are going to try this make it real slow. I would say a few months to reduce the values will be OK.
With Ca 380, Mg 1250 and kH 6.0 and a little less light You will have a much slower growth of the corals and 2 part consumption.
But the PO4 and NO3 have to be low or the corals will get brown. Ist a tricky way to go because with those values the tank is much more sensitive for value swings.
If You are going to try this make it real slow. I would say a few months to reduce the values will be OK.
Ubergroover
Engineer by day, Musician/golfer/reefer by night
Natural seawater is 7 ish? reef areas higher. there is a reason mother nature created these levels....
WWIII
2500 Club Member
