Kh important or myth

[PDR]

I saw this episode as well and I have also watched some recent videos by melev, and reef dudes where it seems they put a much higher emphasis on ph than what I have always read and been told.

I always thought temp, salinity, and alk were most important, where Jake specifically says temp, salinity and ph.

 

[SteadyC]

Clearly states its a reefbuilder video on yt so how about swing by to there and watch its the latest video uploaded....

You really, really, have to be skeptical of Reefbuilder videos. I do not consider their posts worthwhile. Once they posted that it’s ok to add SPS to newly setup tanks, when the rest of us know the truth.

 

[SteadyC]

I

Why even reply you clearly don't have anything constructive to bring to this discussion. Not even sure you have a acro tank

Sorry but, I’m with him. Maintain Alk to,acceptable ranges or forget chemistry altogether.

 

[MnFish1]

C

You really, really, have to be skeptical of Reefbuilder videos. I do not consider their posts worthwhile. Once they posted that it’s ok to add SPS to newly setup tanks, when the rest of us know the truth.

curious. When a reef lfs opens do you think the let their tanks settle on for a year or more? It’s all about bacteria filtration and stability. IMHO. Not many people have the patience or filtration to do it. But it’s certainly possible to set up an sps tank quickly

 

[badfinger]

This is the way he keeps his tank, and from the looks of it, it is a nice tank.

He is saying that he worrys about PH and keeping that stable, not Alk. He doesnt want it "way" low, but cant keep it high.

PH and KH have some of the same properties (at least from my understanding).
Maybe you have to keep one or the other stable, and your tank will be fine. But I dont know how to "control" PH well in my tank. I can add on certain things to help, but that's about it. So I keep my alk stable. If I could keep both stable I would do that

 

[SteadyC]

C

curious. When a reef lfs opens do you think the let their tanks settle on for a year or more? It’s all about bacteria filtration and stability. IMHO. Not many people have the patience or filtration to do it. But it’s certainly possible to set up an sps tank quickly

No, I completely disagree. And BRS in their ultra low maintenance tank series experienced this, they setup new tanks, and all SPS died in the SPS dominant tank. Also, watch the WWC series with BRS, they stated 9 month setup time with one of their tanks was rushed and they didn’t like it, but they added SPS. Sorry but, if SPS are finicky and hard, nothing but a stable tank will do. I don’t agree with rolling the dice with a non-established tank.

 

[SteadyC]

That's your opinion. One I'm afraid you don't share with many. Jake has been in the game a long time and knows his stuff. Sounds like you have a personal issue with him.

I posted that I read his stuff and evaluate what he has to say. No, I don’t have a personal issue with him, as I stated I read what he has to say but I disagree with a lot of it. If you agree with 100% of what he has to say, you should think twice.

 

[Amoo]

Guys and Gals, this thread is so far off the rails, that I'm not even sure where to start and it's been that for 3 pages. Can we please keep things civil and free from personal attacks, put downs....etc. It's just not how we do business here.

 

[Humblefish]

Guys and Gals, this thread is so far off the rails, that I'm not even sure where to start and it's been that for 3 pages. Can we please keep things civil and free from personal attacks, put downs....etc. It's just not how we do business here.

^^ Agree

 

[MnFish1]

No, I completely disagree. And BRS in their ultra low maintenance tank series experienced this, they setup new tanks, and all SPS died in the SPS dominant tank. Also, watch the WWC series with BRS, they stated 9 month setup time with one of their tanks was rushed and they didn’t like it, but they added SPS. Sorry but, if SPS are finicky and hard, nothing but a stable tank will do. I don’t agree with rolling the dice with a non-established tank.

its ok that you disagree - but you didn't answer the question. How do you think stores that sell coral start up their business - do you think that they leave their tanks and slowly add on frag a month after it has 'settled in' for a year? I have watched the BRS videos - and I think you know that they also were testing other things rather than just 'setting up a tank'. Im not trying to poke you here - but - its a myth. Otherwise - explain to me how any aquarium store has a reef tank in existence? Perhaps its has to do with the idea that there is such a thing as an 'ultra low maintenence tank (I don't believe there is) - and I dont think you can set up an SPS tank as such like that anyway. Again JMHO. I dont know anything about the guys in the video being discussed btw - so I'm not defending him/them. A stable Kh, and other parameters are essential - that's much more difficult in a new tank - but just being a new tank shouldn't preclude it IMO

 

[Crabs McJones]

Thank you @Amoo Please keep the discussion on topic. Debate on RB and their knowledge is not the subject of the discussion. For those that need a refresher it's on whether KH levels are important in a reef tank.
Thanks everyone

 

[Giddyup]

I am noticing quite a few SPS threads here on R2R recently where tank owners keeping Alk below 7.0. Interesting topic.

 

[Jamie7907]

I would never go to reef builders for quality information. It’s like going to the dentist for open heart surgery. While he’s good at making videos and promoting products he’s not very good at reefing and this video shows you all you should need to know. Salinity is a point low, calcium is way high and alkalinity is “comically” low at 4.78? I mean really? These are living animals and alkalinity is one of the most important factors in keeping them that way. I can see beginners making mistakes like these but for a guy to be giving information to people that’s supposed to be experienced is shameful. If you ask me he doesn’t know how to dial in the dosing pumps he’s using because if he did he wouldn’t have the testing results that he does. And the corals are all easy to grow for sps anyway and I suspect the only reason many of them are still alive though many are pale and lack any significant color.

 

[Amoo]

Thank you @Amoo Please keep the discussion on topic. Debate on RB and their knowledge is not the subject of the discussion. For those that need a refresher it's on whether KH levels are important in a reef tank.
Thanks everyone

I would never go to reef builders for quality information. It’s like going to the dentist for open heart surgery. While he’s good at making videos and promoting products he’s not very good at reefing and this video shows you all you should need to know. Salinity is a point low, calcium is way high and alkalinity is “comically” low at 4.78? I mean really? These are living animals and alkalinity is one of the most important factors in keeping them that way. I can see beginners making mistakes like these but for a guy to be giving information to people that’s supposed to be experienced is shameful. If you ask me he doesn’t know how to dial in the dosing pumps he’s using because if he did he wouldn’t have the testing results that he does. And the corals are all easy to grow for sps anyway and I suspect the only reason many of them are still alive though many are pale and lack any significant color.

...

 

[SteadyC]

Guys and Gals, this thread is so far off the rails, that I'm not even sure where to start and it's been that for 3 pages. Can we please keep things civil and free from personal attacks, put downs....etc. It's just not how we do business here.

I’m sorry, but you’re missing the point. The crux of the question was based off of the information shared in the video from RB, public information someone decided to share. The question is based on the fact that Jake shared his Alk is 4.78. And the OP asking if we think our understanding of chemistry is incorrect based on Jake’s experience.

Clearly it’s totally acceptable to disagree with the video for many reasons. It’s very irresponsible to let Alk get down to 4.78, while he laughs it off. Is this any different than leaving your dog in a car on a hot day, with the windows rolled up? I seriously do not think so. it’s irresponsible to not maintain proper water chemistry for our animals that rely on us to maintain water parameters, same as our dogs rely on us to not allow them to suffer in a hot car.

Since the question was based on the video, it’s totally acceptable to critize the video and the irresponsibility of the animal “care” taker. If he came home and his corals were bleached, we would be carrying pitch forks to his house questioning his irresponsibility. The line walked here, is so small you fail to see it.

Our understanding of acceptable chemistry should not be based on this video. And that is the point to the responses, mixed with emotional outrage to the irresponsibility here, the fact that it was shared publicly, and even worse, he laughs about it. Sorry, but I think it’s acceptable to call a spade a spade. And all the while, challenging people to think for themselves, rather than look up to someone who lets their alk drop to 4.something. I’m not sorry I asked people to think for themselves, to still follow Jake and read what he has to say (as I said I do), but to evaluate what is questionable.

 

[SteadyC]

its ok that you disagree - but you didn't answer the question. How do you think stores that sell coral start up their business - do you think that they leave their tanks and slowly add on frag a month after it has 'settled in' for a year? I have watched the BRS videos - and I think you know that they also were testing other things rather than just 'setting up a tank'. Im not trying to poke you here - but - its a myth. Otherwise - explain to me how any aquarium store has a reef tank in existence? Perhaps its has to do with the idea that there is such a thing as an 'ultra low maintenence tank (I don't believe there is) - and I dont think you can set up an SPS tank as such like that anyway. Again JMHO. I dont know anything about the guys in the video being discussed btw - so I'm not defending him/them. A stable Kh, and other parameters are essential - that's much more difficult in a new tank - but just being a new tank shouldn't preclude it IMO

I understand what you’re saying. The LFS around me, have been around for years, not something I deal with. I’m just under the opinion, that if a tank doesn’t have stable bacteria (which takes a while), doesn’t have sponge growth, hasn’t gone through the various algae phases, doesn’t have corraline algae growth, it isn’t ready for SPS. I really don’t think the process can be, or should be, rushed. And i think it’s irresponsible to try, and even worse (as in the case of a past Jake video) encourage others to add Corals to their tanks until is responsible to do so. Perhaps new LFS buy rock and water, etc. from other established LFS, that they put SPS in. Maybe corals don’t stay in the stores long enough, and just move to our tanks soon enough. But really, I don’t know, and honestly don’t care (not being grumpy here, please don’t get me wrong), cause I only buy SPS from trusted online stores, or the many well established LFS here.

 

[Humblefish]

Sorry, but I think it’s acceptable to call a spade a spade.

Yes, but there are more clever ways of doing so without calling someone an outright “idiot”. Personal attacks are against our TOS, and run contrary to the overall civility we like to foster here on R2R.

 

[Jamie7907]

its ok that you disagree - but you didn't answer the question. How do you think stores that sell coral start up their business - do you think that they leave their tanks and slowly add on frag a month after it has 'settled in' for a year? I have watched the BRS videos - and I think you know that they also were testing other things rather than just 'setting up a tank'. Im not trying to poke you here - but - its a myth. Otherwise - explain to me how any aquarium store has a reef tank in existence? Perhaps its has to do with the idea that there is such a thing as an 'ultra low maintenence tank (I don't believe there is) - and I dont think you can set up an SPS tank as such like that anyway. Again JMHO. I dont know anything about the guys in the video being discussed btw - so I'm not defending him/them. A stable Kh, and other parameters are essential - that's much more difficult in a new tank - but just being a new tank shouldn't preclude it IMO

I can say from experience that lfs do wait for tanks to cycle before filling them with sps. Some may speed that cycle up by utilizing rock from another established system but even then I’d venture to say a majority don’t immediately fill it up with new corals on day one, the losses would put most out of business in a hurry. You mention BRS and in their recent series on WWC it’s payed out right in the videos that they wait and let the tanks cycle, in reality it’s just part of the business, at least if you want to stay in business.

 

[Giddyup]

I will PM the OP the last few interesting threads I’ve read where seasoned reefers maintain low dkh. I don’t want to pull those folks into a debate they don’t care to have

Cheers!

 

[ddrueckh]

What I find interesting, reading all this, is that people are upset that his alkalinity is at 4.78dkh. How many people keep their alkalinity at 11dkh-12dkh? The typical ocean surface value for alkalinity is 7dkh. 4.78dkh is closer to the average surface value than 11dkh. I find the reactions interesting. Would I keep mine this low...no. I just find it interesting that 11-12 is acceptable but 4.78 is not. He does have a nice looking tank so something is working.