lack of p/e in display tank?

[coralbeauties]

I have little to no p/e in my display tank with both milli and acros. My frag tank is almost the opposite and the corals have good extension. All share the same water. Differences being lighting, flow, and fish. I suspect fish but would all the corals be affected or just some of them if they were being picked at? The lighting in the display is diy leds and the frag tank is ocean revive leds. What do you all think?
thanks
Jeff

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Likely fish. What fish are in DT?

 

[kungfujoe]

If you have dwarf angels nipping at the polyps, this might cause no pe. I had this problem with a Joc Angel. When the lights go out and the Jock sleeps, the polyps came out. Finally got rid of him and the polyps emerged during the day.

 

[coralbeauties]

I have a majestic angel and an idol which either one could be the problem. I had to remove my two acans that were declining. The only reason I thought it might not be the fish was that all the corals are being affected. I thought that the fish would have a favorite coral to nip on not all of them.
Jeff

 

[jda]

They seem to have a network of communication where they all can sense if one is getting picked on. I am kidding, of course, but it does seem that way.

 

[DarkSky]

I had a lack of PE from having too little nitrates/nutrient levels in my tank - now that my nitrates are detectable, I get PE during the night. My emperor angel makes sure there is none during the day.

 

[jda]

Y'all please keep in mind that PE is only really needed for gas exchange in SPS. This is why the corals risk it more at night when photosynthesis is not happening - they have to breathe more on their own.

More PE can be a sign of good things, or bad. Less PE can be a sign of good things, or bad.

More PE with higher nitrates can be a sign that a coral is having issues respiring... maybe not, but this seems the most obvious. This might not be good... but who knows.

Growth and color are better indicators of overall coral health than PE, so do not get too worked up about it.

 

[DarkSky]

Y'all please keep in mind that PE is only really needed for gas exchange in SPS. This is why the corals risk it more at night when photosynthesis is not happening - they have to breathe more on their own.

More PE can be a sign of good things, or bad. Less PE can be a sign of good things, or bad.

More PE with higher nitrates can be a sign that a coral is having issues respiring... maybe not, but this seems the most obvious. This might not be good... but who knows.

Growth and color are better indicators of overall coral health than PE, so do not get too worked up about it.

+1

I've seen a really nice SPS tank where all coral had great PE; the guy had very minimal flow and claimed they responded better to calmer water. Naw - the coral are struggling to breath. Same reason frags in bags have 'great' PE, no movement and minimal water volume.

 

[jda]

For sure... Corals who are struggling to breathe have massive PE. Look at some of the vendors who take photos in "still water" in a "photo box." They wait until the corals has massive PE - this is from lack of gas exchange where they are trying to breathe, but no flow and stagnant water makes them "look better" to some and "look healthier" to those who do not know that the PE in the photos is artificial.

About all that PE can tell you is that if a normally hairy corals has not been for a few days, then pay attention. Or if a normally slick corals is now all of a sudden very hairy, then pay attention. If "normal" all of a sudden is not, then check out your tank for abnormalities.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Now I don’t have any nippers but when my corals have no PE it’s a sign of stress. I’ve never had an acro with great PE just die suddenly. Every nature show, video, reading material claims corals use their polyps and cilia to absorb nutrition, minerals and yes, gas exchange. But not “only” gas exchange.

 

[jda]

Find a video about acropora and not just "corals." We are in the SPS section and not the general coral section. My advice and experience would be different for LPS, NPS, softies, dendro and even the colonial 'nems such as Z&P or mushrooms (which are not even coral). "Corals" is just too wide of a term and we specialize tanks for SPS different from other corals for lighting and everything else, so why is this any different?

High ammonia is perhaps the biggest reason for excessive PE is a really bad thing. This is not a huge deal most of the time.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Find a video about acropora and not just "corals." We are in the SPS section and not the general coral section. My advice and experience would be different for LPS, NPS, softies, dendro and even the colonial 'nems such as Z&P or mushrooms (which are not even coral). "Corals" is just too wide of a term and we specialize tanks for SPS different from other corals for lighting and everything else, so why is this any different?

High ammonia is perhaps the biggest reason for excessive PE is a really bad thing. This is not a huge deal most of the time.

Did you watch the video??
Or can you not recognize Acropora?
Doesn’t matter either way. If the video was Acropora specific you’d just claim it was wrong.

 

[coralbeauties]

Thanks for all the interesting reads. I was working in the tank last night and looks like the tip on my Cali tort had been munched on. I’m still leaning towards my idol or majestic. I’ve seen the idol nip at some acans. Fish or polyps?
Jeff

 

[jda]

The one that you saw catch the food and put it in the mouth was GFI - that stands for Computer Generated Imagery. That was not a real coral. For everybody else, the most important thing to get from that video is that zoox is what feeds your corals.

Find an acropora specific video and see what we think... I appreciate the straw man argument with an auto reject, though, since they don't exist. Like I have always said, they could be eating, but they don't have to be... only have to be doing gas exchange. You can find some videos with Pocilipora catching food.

There are smart people who want to know the truth about what is going on. PE does not mean what most people think that it does.

There are even more NOAA and real science type of studies that say that corals will only try and eat if the zoox are not supplying enough energy. Unfortunately, this is a general study too, but they do reference bleaching events, which is more stony related. They also said that live prey (mostly zoo) are worth their time - these are out of reach for nearly all hobbyists. Bleached corals eat a lot while healthy ones not so much. It is sad that it took bleaching to bring some more actual science to this. I am not a huge fan of idiots on message boards (me) interpreting studies, so take this for what it is worth... which is not much.

Put it all together... corals with enough zoox do not have to eat... and we don't have the necessary zooplankton to feed them anyway... so are they really eating in captivity? I had these same talks a decade ago with people who swore that their DT Phyto or Cyclopeeze were essential to their corals growing, but they have all either dropped out of the hobby or have wisened up. Most people don't even know what these are anymore and corals are still living and growing.

It is funny how actual pHd and other real experts have said this for 30 years and it is still true, yet people still tend to believe message board posters and manufacturers who want to sell you "food" product.

As far as fish or polyps - only you can decide. Some just nip here and there and you can live with it... some are destructive. Each is in the eye of the beholder. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

The one that you saw catch the food and put it in the mouth was GFI - that stands for Computer Generated Imagery. That was not a real coral. For everybody else, the most important thing to get from that video is that zoox is what feeds your corals.

Find an acropora specific video and see what we think... I appreciate the straw man argument with an auto reject, though, since they don't exist. Like I have always said, they could be eating, but they don't have to be... only have to be doing gas exchange. You can find some videos with Pocilipora catching food.

There are smart people who want to know the truth about what is going on. PE does not mean what most people think that it does.

There are even more NOAA and real science type of studies that say that corals will only try and eat if the zoox are not supplying enough energy. Unfortunately, this is a general study too, but they do reference bleaching events, which is more stony related. They also said that live prey (mostly zoo) are worth their time - these are out of reach for nearly all hobbyists. Bleached corals eat a lot while healthy ones not so much. It is sad that it took bleaching to bring some more actual science to this. I am not a huge fan of idiots on message boards (me) interpreting studies, so take this for what it is worth... which is not much.

Put it all together... corals with enough zoox do not have to eat... and we don't have the necessary zooplankton to feed them anyway... so are they really eating in captivity? I had these same talks a decade ago with people who swore that their DT Phyto or Cyclopeeze were essential to their corals growing, but they have all either dropped out of the hobby or have wisened up. Most people don't even know what these are anymore and corals are still living and growing.

It is funny how actual pHd and other real experts have said this for 30 years and it is still true, yet people still tend to believe message board posters and manufacturers who want to sell you "food" product.

As far as fish or polyps - only you can decide. Some just nip here and there and you can live with it... some are destructive. Each is in the eye of the beholder. Good luck with your decision.

Good One!!!!!

 

[jda]

I would like to see that video. Do you have more than a screen shot?

 

[Tahoe61]

These acropora are not exhibiting lack of O2, day light image. There was just plenty of food to be had.

 

[jda]

It is not o2, it is getting the extra co2 out. Love the still shot with the reflection, but the calm water is a gas exchange issue for the corals... same with a photo box. Even if they did it, it would mostly be at night.

If those are being fed, I would love to know what they were feeding them in 2013.

 

[Tahoe61]

LOL

Back then it was RODS frozen fish and coral foods, non aggressive skimming and a JBJ 29 gal with HQI.
Flow was moderate, turned of PH for image.

 

[jda]

Loved me some Rods. Have not had any in a long time - don't see it in the LFSs anymore. I still have a HQI biocube that I just cannot get rid of. My fish really like cyclopeeze too, but my corals never did anything with it... great food to get picky fish to start eating. Now rods, cyclopeeze, DTs (and even HQI Biocubes) all are a joke. AcroPower, ReefRoids and all of the "foods" of today will be tomorrow's joke when something new comes along with HUFAs, krypton infused energy, whale sperm or the like is now the cannot-live-without product on a message board.