Lamarcks Angel

Victoria M · Apr 19, 2019

@HotRocks @Brew12 #reefsquad
QT issues! GGGRRR
QT at 1 week
Started cupramine at half dose and then added prazipro because flukes were noted on one fish. Fed with focus and GC .
Molly Miller Blenny - fresh water dip with Methylene Blue = flukes...she died.

Bicolor Blenny...eating & chilling.
Lamarcks Angel...ate first 48 hours & was bold.
Day 6- hiding, rapid breathing, ammonia badge at .05 so huge water change. NO MEDICATIONS in new water

Day 7 angel hiding, rapid breathing, not eating, 60% water change used DT and ro water to match salinity of 1.019, and did a fresh water dip with M. Blue. Only 30 seconds as instructions say 10 seconds. The angel was rubbing her chin like crazy when I placed her back in the QT. I presume the dip irritated her gills/parasites.
I can not see any outward signs of disease.

Currently QT at
1.019 - very little medication if any in the tank
74 degrees and rising to 76 (ro water was cold)
Great surface agitation with filter
Air stone
Super dim lighting
What is next?
Angel is twitching, little bit of rapid respirations, staying by the filter but not wedged in hiding.
I am preparing a simple temp and ph adjusted freshwater dip for later if you recommend it.

andys · Apr 19, 2019

If it was me I would drop the salinity to 1.011 to eradicate the flukes.

Brew12 · Apr 19, 2019

Victoria M said:
@HotRocks @Brew12 #reefsquad
QT issues! GGGRRR
QT at 1 week
Started cupramine at half dose and then added prazipro because flukes were noted on one fish. Fed with focus and GC .
Molly Miller Blenny - fresh water dip with Methylene Blue = flukes...she died.
Bicolor Blenny...eating & chilling.
Lamarcks Angel...ate first 48 hours & was bold.
Day 6- hiding, rapid breathing, ammonia badge at .05 so huge water change. NO MEDICATIONS in new water

Day 7 angel hiding, rapid breathing, not eating, 60% water change used DT and ro water to match salinity of 1.019, and did a fresh water dip with M. Blue. Only 30 seconds as instructions say 10 seconds. The angel was rubbing her chin like crazy when I placed her back in the QT. I presume the dip irritated her gills/parasites.
I can not see any outward signs of disease.

Currently QT at
1.019 - very little medication if any in the tank
74 degrees and rising to 76 (ro water was cold)
Great surface agitation with filter
Air stone
Super dim lighting
What is next?
Angel is twitching, little bit of rapid respirations, staying by the filter but not wedged in hiding.
I am preparing a simple temp and ph adjusted freshwater dip for later if you recommend it.

Wow.. this is a tough situation. I saw you were having problems but didn't have enough info to comment and didn't want to confuse things.

This is what I would do. I would get Cupramine up to the 0.15 to 0.2ppm range. It won't eradicate parasites at this level but it will kill some of them and help keep any population lower for now.
Since you have GC, I would dose that as recommended to the water. Keep the air stone running. It sounds like a nasty case of flukes. Unfortunately, a FW dip causes the flukes to spasm which can cause harm to the fish. The Prazi in GC should help with the flukes and causes less issues with copper in the water than Prazipro. If you have Metroplex I would add that every 2 days after the GC dose. If you don't have Metroplex, use the GC ever 2 days.
If the poor Angel makes it through the next 6 days doing that then we can figure out how to continue the treatment.

Victoria M · Apr 19, 2019

Brew12 said:
Wow.. this is a tough situation. I saw you were having problems but didn't have enough info to comment and didn't want to confuse things.

This is what I would do. I would get Cupramine up to the 0.15 to 0.2ppm range. It won't eradicate parasites at this level but it will kill some of them and help keep any population lower for now.
Since you have GC, I would dose that as recommended to the water. Keep the air stone running. It sounds like a nasty case of flukes. Unfortunately, a FW dip causes the flukes to spasm which can cause harm to the fish. The Prazi in GC should help with the flukes and causes less issues with copper in the water than Prazipro. If you have Metroplex I would add that every 2 days after the GC dose. If you don't have Metroplex, use the GC ever 2 days.
If the poor Angel makes it through the next 6 days doing that then we can figure out how to continue the treatment.

Thank you for helping me. This is so crazy how ill fish are these days. My cupramine is maybe 5-7 years old. I have read it is fine but is it ya think? I will dose the copper after I hear from you regarding the age of the Cupramine. I will put the GC in now. BTW the angel is out swimming now. The bi color blennie is just hanging out.
I figured the angels behavior after the dip would help confirm flukes.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Brew12 · Apr 19, 2019

Victoria M said:
Thank you for helping me. This is so crazy how ill fish are these days. My cupramine is maybe 5-7 years old. I have read it is fine but is it ya think? I will dose the copper after I hear from you regarding the age of the Cupramine. I will put the GC in now. BTW the angel is out swimming now. The bi color blennie is just hanging out.
I figured the angels behavior after the dip would help confirm flukes.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Should be fine if you are using an accurate copper test kit. Copper solutions can become dilute over time but it isn't an issue if you are testing for copper. Only if you are relying on measured additions.

Good luck!

Victoria M · Apr 19, 2019

Brew12 said:
Should be fine if you are using an accurate copper test kit. Copper solutions can become dilute over time but it isn't an issue if you are testing for copper. Only if you are relying on measured additions.

Good luck!

I measure. Thank you.

Victoria M · Apr 24, 2019

Today the Angel looked great and was trying flake food but spitting it out. I did 50% water change and dosed GC again. Just checked on her and she is swimming erratically face down. What the heck! @Brew12

Brew12 · Apr 24, 2019

Victoria M said:
Today the Angel looked great and was trying flake food but spitting it out. I did 50% water change and dosed GC again. Just checked on her and she is swimming erratically face down. What the heck! @Brew12

I need to think about this one.. I've got nothing right now.

Frtdrmrose7 · Apr 24, 2019

Victoria M said:
Today the Angel looked great and was trying flake food but spitting it out. I did 50% water change and dosed GC again. Just checked on her and she is swimming erratically face down. What the heck! @Brew12

Did you confirm flukes on the Angel?

Victoria M · Apr 24, 2019

Only by behavior. The flukes were confirmed on the Molly Miller Blenny.

Frtdrmrose7 · Apr 24, 2019

Victoria M said:
Only by behavior. The flukes were confirmed on the Molly Miller Blenny.

I was going to say Prazi causes flukes to spasm and if this started just after the GC then the Angel may have gill flukes that are causing spasms in the Angel

Victoria M · Apr 24, 2019

Frtdrmrose7 said:
I was going to say Prazi causes flukes to spasm and if this started just after the GC then the Angel may have gill flukes that are causing spasms in the Angel

Yes, I agree. It is terrible to see her like this.

Victoria M · Apr 24, 2019

Tha

Brew12 said:
I need to think about this one.. I've got nothing right now.

thank you. Also @HotRocks any advise?

HotRocks · Apr 24, 2019

I don't have much to add to the advice you have been given.

Did your ammonia badge clear up? Ammonia can cause more damage than most people realize.

A FW dip is a good way to confirm flukes and they also release from the fish much less violently than when exposed to prazi.

If there was Gill damage from the flukes spasming plus ammonia exposure the best thing to do here is low stress, high oxygen.

Victoria M · Apr 24, 2019

HotRocks said:
I don't have much to add to the advice you have been given.

Did your ammonia badge clear up? Ammonia can cause more damage than most people realize.

A FW dip is a good way to confirm flukes and they also release from the fish much less violently than when exposed to prazi.

If there was Gill damage from the flukes spasming plus ammonia exposure the best thing to do here is low stress, high oxygen.

Thank you. The ammonia is at 0. I just checked on her again. No better, no worse.

Victoria M · Apr 24, 2019

I am tempted to do a large water change to remove the medication as the angel was doing better prior to the GC dose.

lagatbezan · Apr 25, 2019

How is the fish doing?
If no change I would do a large water change and then drop salinity to hypo. This will keep ich and velvet at bay (if present) while treating for flukes.

Victoria M · Apr 26, 2019

Day 13 the Angel is still alive and kicking!

swimming around, breathing a little bit fast but nothing like before. Gosh, I hope she pulls thru. Today I will test copper.

ngoodermuth · Apr 26, 2019

I definitely think you should work on getting the copper up... I honestly think there could be another parasite (ie ich or velvet) that is currently being suppressed by the freshwater dips and low level of copper, but still doing damage...