Lanthanum chloride, overdose, little effect.

[Fisherman Joe]

Hi all.

Just realised, I was overdosing my LC but seeing little effect.

I have a 150g tank. 1ml per G is 1ppm reduction (agent green).

I needed to reduce 0.should have added 1.5ml. I added 15ml (in RODI slowly, in to the weir, with a 100 micron filter sock).

When i check the PO4 later (6 hours) it’s still 0.10ppm.

The decimal point messes with my head lol.

Is there maybe more PO4 leeching from sources in the tank?

Not sure wether to use GFO or keep using LC.

 

[mtfish]

Had to look up Agent Green. Not sure of the concentration of LaCl but I would continue to use as directed. PO4 can be locked up in the rocks and sediment, so you may have removed lots of it in the water column and still showing high reading as it leaches out of your rocks. Fish food is a big contributor to PO4. Personally, I fed a lot of food and am constantly controlling PO4 because of this using LaCl. Keep testing and keep using as directed. You will reach a point where PO4 can drop rapidly, so do not overshoot your endpoint. Good luck.

 

[Fisherman Joe]

Thanks. I find with GFO it easily overshoots to zero.

With LaCl, I’ve dosing 10x needed (not overdosing) but it’s not removing as much. Odd.

I am using both. GFO in a small amount and LaCl when PO4 creeps up.

 

[mtfish]

I had good success using SeaKlear Commercial Posphate Remover. Make sure you get the "commercial". I do not use any GFO as the SeaKlear works well on its own.

 

[Fisherman Joe]

Hi all.

I recently switched from the low range hanna PO4 checker to the ultra low range version.

My PO4 used to bottom out at zero very easily but I think I went under the accuracy range of the 713 model.

Now the new 774 checker is reading 0.10 to 0.08.

When I dose 1ml of agent green per 100L, it should lower PO4 by 1ppm. I have been overdosing by accident but my PO4 isn’t dropping.

I also run GFO and have been adding this too. My PO4 still isn’t dropping.

What could be happening?

 

[Fisherman Joe]

My PO4 was 0.08 with the 774 ULR hanna checker.

Added 10ml of LaCl, which should have reduced my PO4 by 0.08 and then tested again, it read 0.07.

Odd

 

[elysics]

Do you filter out the precipitate of the lanthanum chloride in any way? If it is left floating in the water and ends up in the testkit, that could cause problems with the result

Edit: I am bad at reading, 100 micron sounds a bit large though

 

[Fisherman Joe]

I do have a filter sock but not to 10 micron.

The lanthanum chloride will make an insoluble compound once it binds the phosphate so won’t be detectable in the sample.

I can only presume it’s pulling in phosphate out of the sand and rocks.

 

[Cabinetman]

The agent green stuff is weak compared to the seaklear. Like 10% the strength if I had to guess. Maybe less so be extremely careful if you try it. 3-4ml in my 700 gallon system drops my phosphate substantially. I wouldn’t waiste my money on agent green. Get a bottle of sealklear and it will last a lifetime

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

With LaCl, I’ve dosing 10x needed (not overdosing) but it’s not removing as much. Odd.

If true, that can only be because you overdosed the GFO relative to the demand in your system.

There is no attribute of lanthanum phosphate formation that makes it less of an overdose issue than other methods of phosphate removal.

 

[Muffin87]

Not sure wether to use GFO or keep using LC.

You can use LC to spend less on GFO and lengthen its lifespan, by using it to remove only 30%-60% of the excess PO4.
Then remove the remaining excess PO4 with GFO to make sure your PO4 don't bottom out.

Foiling Phosphate: A Look at Lanthanum Chloride Use in the Aquarium - CORAL Magazine

Look back to the introduction of lanthanum chloride as a phosphate reducer in marine reef aquariums, first discussed in CORAL Magazine in late 2009.

www.reef2rainforest.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I do have a filter sock but not to 10 micron.

The lanthanum chloride will make an insoluble compound once it binds the phosphate so won’t be detectable in the sample.

I can only presume it’s pulling in phosphate out of the sand and rocks.

The latter is certainly true all of the time, but lanthanum phosphate may also dissolve in the acid environment of a phosphate test, so if there are suspended solids, they may be detected as still in the water.

 

[Fisherman Joe]

If true, that can only be because you overdosed the GFO relative to the demand in your system.

There is no attribute of lanthanum phosphate formation that makes it less of an overdose issue than other methods of phosphate removal.

So you think the issue could be using both together?

I seem to be adding a lot of GFO and LaCL for little reduction.

I’m worried it might suddenly crash. Can only presume there’s a reservoir of PO4 somewhere.

 

[Fisherman Joe]

You can use LC to spend less on GFO and lengthen its lifespan, by using it to remove only 30%-60% of the excess PO4.
Then remove the remaining excess PO4 with GFO to make sure your PO4 don't bottom out.

Foiling Phosphate: A Look at Lanthanum Chloride Use in the Aquarium - CORAL Magazine

Look back to the introduction of lanthanum chloride as a phosphate reducer in marine reef aquariums, first discussed in CORAL Magazine in late 2009.

www.reef2rainforest.com

Great article.

“As with calcium hydroxide, the effectiveness of lanthanum is greater the higher the phosphate concentration in the water, which means that lanthanum is particularly suitable for reducing a very high phosphate concentration, and less useful for lowering a slightly raised concentration to an ideal level or keeping it low via long-term application. That appears to remain the province of established phosphate adsorbers.”

Tends to lend itself to using GFO and LaCl.

 

[Fisherman Joe]

Hey all.

Still having issues here. Recently switched to the ULR 774 hanna PO4 checker.

With my old 713 version, anytime my PO4 was (seemingly) below 0.1 the reading went to 0.0.

Now with the 774, my PO4 is around 0.08. I am running GFO, dosing carbon and LaCl and it’s not really changing the PO4.

I did have a Green hair algae outbreak a while back and had to remove my refugium and add some Flux RX to kill the GHA. I also used some Vibrant. My refugium is back up and running 24-7 but not growing rapidly. It’s been a month since any of these additives were in the tank but the caluerpa is still sulking. The chaeto is thin too.

Until I get my fuge back up and running I’m using LaCl. I’m adding enough to reduce PO4 by 1ppm (when it’s 0.1) and all it does is drop it to 0.08.

Is this normal?

 

[Muffin87]

Until I get my fuge back up and running I’m using LaCl. I’m adding enough to reduce PO4 by 1ppm (when it’s 0.1) and all it does is drop it to 0.08.

I had kind of a similar experience.
PO4 was 0.10, dose enough to knock it down to 0.02, following day was 0.11.

Maybe we should try a very slow drip?

 

[Fisherman Joe]

Ok. So it finally worked.

0.13. Added enough for 1.0 ppm reduction and it went to 0.05. I’m happy with that.

I added salt to my RO water in my top off tank, set the skimmer to a really wet skim. Added a 100 micron filter sock (all I have at the minute) and diluted the Agent Green and dripped it in there slowly.

Odd. Maybe the PO4 leaching happens really quickly?! To bring it back up.

 

[Cory]

Make sure your shaking the bottle before you dose it so lanthanum is homogeneous.

 

[Fisherman Joe]

Good point. I am shaking it.

 

[Spieg]

100 micron sock is not going to remove the LC. Buy some 5 or 10 micron socks.

I've never tried adding LC to ATO, but seems like a bad idea... better to add/filter and test after 20-30 minutes to see how much PO4 level has dropped. After a while you get a good idea of how much LC you need to use to drop 0.05 (this is the most you really want to lower at one time).