Lanthanum Chloride Questions

[Fishy888]

I didn't want to resort to chemicals but I need to get these phosphates down. Today I ordered a bottle of phosphate-e. My phosphates are still about 1ppm.

Of course I realize that dosing lanthanum chloride is not a magic bullet. This will be dosed very slowly. Once I get my phosphates down to 0.1 approximately I expect my chaeto to take over. I imagine the whole process of going from 1 to 0.1 will take several months done the safe way.

My questions are what size filter socks (micon wise) should I use?

Also what is the absolute maximum I should be dropping my phosphates per day? Since I have peppermint shrimp, bristle worms, pods, chaeto, etc I'll likely dose less than the absolute maximum.

One last question. My understanding is that the biggest risk comes from dosing LaCl once phosphates get down to a certain point due to the potential for unbound LaCl to stay in the tank. Is 0.1ppm a good goal to shoot for? Of course I want to get them below that level, but not with LaCl.

Thank you.

 

[Reefahholic]

My questions are what size filter socks (micon wise) should I use?

5-10 works well.

Also what is the absolute maximum I should be dropping my phosphates per day?

.08 is safe.

One last question. My understanding is that the biggest risk comes from dosing LaCl once phosphates get down to a certain point due to the potential for unbound LaCl to stay in the tank. Is 0.1ppm a good goal to shoot for?

Lanthanum Chloride is a pollutant. I’d personally avoid adding it to my system. There will be some buildup that you would see on ICP. If you must… 0.1 ppm is a good goal to shoot for.

 

[Fishy888]

Thank you. I wouldn't do this but I am getting desperate. It's my hope that after I get it down with LaCl I'll never have to use it again.

 

[Fishy888]

It helps that I don't have tons of coral. I am more concerned for the fish and inverts. I am definitely going to be conservative in regards to dripping LaCl. Once the phosphates are down enough I'll be able to get more stony corals. My duncans are my only stony coral.

 

[WVNed]

I have put several gallons of it in my tank.
All my fish have 2 heads and glow in the dark now.
If I had only known.

 

[schooncw]

I didn't want to resort to chemicals but I need to get these phosphates down. Today I ordered a bottle of phosphate-e. My phosphates are still about 1ppm.

Of course I realize that dosing lanthanum chloride is not a magic bullet. This will be dosed very slowly. Once I get my phosphates down to 0.1 approximately I expect my chaeto to take over. I imagine the whole process of going from 1 to 0.1 will take several months done the safe way.

My questions are what size filter socks (micon wise) should I use?

Also what is the absolute maximum I should be dropping my phosphates per day? Since I have peppermint shrimp, bristle worms, pods, chaeto, etc I'll likely dose less than the absolute maximum.

One last question. My understanding is that the biggest risk comes from dosing LaCl once phosphates get down to a certain point due to the potential for unbound LaCl to stay in the tank. Is 0.1ppm a good goal to shoot for? Of course I want to get them below that level, but not with LaCl.

Thank you.

I do regard Lanthanum Chloride as a "magic bullet". I have been using it for a few months now and have brought down PO from 1.0 to 0.20 with 1 x 10ml dose added at once, directly to my 120 softie tank. Torches, nems, leathers, mushrooms show no adverse effects and on the contrary, respond very well. It does, however, rebound very quickly.
I will add, that I have copious amounts of live rock, that is 20-30 years old and I run GFO - recently switched to Fauna Marin Power Phos. It is my hope that in due course, enough PO will leech out and allow my PO to be controlled by GFO and my macro algae reactor.

 

[areefer01]

I didn't want to resort to chemicals but I need to get these phosphates down. Today I ordered a bottle of phosphate-e. My phosphates are still about 1ppm.

Why do you feel the need to bring them down? Is there something wrong or you just don't like the number?

Of course I realize that dosing lanthanum chloride is not a magic bullet. This will be dosed very slowly. Once I get my phosphates down to 0.1 approximately I expect my chaeto to take over. I imagine the whole process of going from 1 to 0.1 will take several months done the safe way.

My questions are what size filter socks (micon wise) should I use?

Also what is the absolute maximum I should be dropping my phosphates per day? Since I have peppermint shrimp, bristle worms, pods, chaeto, etc I'll likely dose less than the absolute maximum.

One last question. My understanding is that the biggest risk comes from dosing LaCl once phosphates get down to a certain point due to the potential for unbound LaCl to stay in the tank. Is 0.1ppm a good goal to shoot for? Of course I want to get them below that level, but not with LaCl.

Thank you.

Here is my take:

Lanthanum chloride will knock back your phosphates. While I have not used over the counter Pool/SPA LC I have used Phosphate rX and it worked in under 24 hours. Calculate the actual water volume and start with half a dose to see how your display reacts. While adding it directly to a filter sock or in front of a skimmer intake the best way to add it is directly "INTO" the skimmer. This is the only way I've found that the cloudiness or particulates are reduced. The cloudy water and/or particulates are why I no longer use this stuff. Oh - there is also a note on the phosphate rx page that suggest to only reduce phosphate by so much in one setting. I don't have that number so make sure to look - it will apply to all product.

Also while LC will knock down phosphates if the original issue that contributes to high phosphate is not found it will only come back...

 

[schooncw]

In my situation.....
Very old rock, which I do believe has bound PO
Overstocked tank
Generous feeding.
Tho not happy with PO of 1.0, I was not overly concerned as the-softie- tank looked great. I wanted to add euphyllia and had to get PO down to do so. Of course, I realize that an overstocked and overfed tank will continue to result in high PO but it is my hope that eventually, the PO in my rock will dissipate and I will be able to be control PO by GFO. I have seen absolutely no negatives from using Lan.

 

[Fishy888]

My PO4 was 1.0, possibly higher since the color chip for 1.0 was a slightly lighter blue than the blue color of the test water. I knocked it down though. I have seen algae come down now as well.

Before I even considered going this route I found the cause of my issues and fixed them. I have a decent amount of healthy chaeto now. Now that this issue is better I’m keeping it that way.

 

[Fishy888]

I forgot to add…

I diluted half a teaspoon in 1/2 gallon of distilled water and dripped it overnight right into a 5 micron sock. I also ran phosphate laden water through it at the same time. I only dosed enough to drop the phosphates 0.08 per day. I never saw cloudiness or particulates although those socks sure got dirty fast lol. I am still running the 5 micron socks just in case but after 12 doses I terminated the drip. I’m not reading any phosphates now but I want to make sure I catch any stray particles that could be in the water column still. Thank you all.

 

[Sean Clark]

The cloudy water and/or particulates are why I no longer use this stuff.

The cloudy water is a function of how the product works. It is essentially acting as a floculant, binding to the phosphate which creates a larger particulate that can then be removed via filtration. If anything the cloudy water validates that the product is working as intended.

This statement is a bit like saying that you do not use lawn mowers because they have a spinning blade while running.

 

[schooncw]

Someone mentioned dosing into the skimmer....anyone else do this? I was using 5 micron socks but too much hassle

 

[areefer01]

The cloudy water is a function of how the product works. It is essentially acting as a floculant, binding to the phosphate which creates a larger particulate that can then be removed via filtration. If anything the cloudy water validates that the product is working as intended.

I know what it is, and caused by. I did not like it in my system which as I said is why I won't use it. I have fish and filter feeders. I don't know if it can affect the animals. Yes it clears up in a short period. We all have our acceptable risk levels.

Not sure I agree with the lawn mower part but all good.

 

[schooncw]

I know what it is, and caused by. I did not like it in my system which as I said is why I won't use it. I have fish and filter feeders. I don't know if it can affect the animals. Yes it clears up in a short period. We all have our acceptable risk levels.

Not sure I agree with the lawn mower part but all good.

Foiling Phosphate: A Look at Lanthanum Chloride Use in the Aquarium - CORAL Magazine

Look back to the introduction of lanthanum chloride as a phosphate reducer in marine reef aquariums, first discussed in CORAL Magazine in late 2009.

www.reef2rainforest.com

 

[GARRIGA]

Tried Phosphat-E at half the recommended and dropped my phosphates without issue. Fish only experimental tank but fish seem to be the most affected because of sediment created as it bounds phosphates. Not having a 5 income anything around I tried it by adding over several doses per day during treatment period. No issues. Problem solved.

Will keep using when nitrates get over bearing but have found that overdosing carbon to be more effective. Mine are under 0.25 ppm but that as low as my test goes. Currently don’t need or care to know less. Plus I overfeed purposely and doubt I will ever be zero or low enough to worry.

GHA gone. Turf algae all but gone except directly under my Kessil.

Not every tank needs to be under 0.09 ppm but were I to need that then Lanthanum what I will use. Just need to find a 5 micron sock to pour it in. Just incase. Best play it safe.

 

[areefer01]

Foiling Phosphate: A Look at Lanthanum Chloride Use in the Aquarium - CORAL Magazine

Look back to the introduction of lanthanum chloride as a phosphate reducer in marine reef aquariums, first discussed in CORAL Magazine in late 2009.

www.reef2rainforest.com

It is a great read. But why quote me and the link? I understand how it works and what it does. I personally do not like the cloudy side effect. If I was to use it again I would probably does it right into my skimmer at a low concentration to prevent it.

 

[schooncw]

I did not quote you purposefully and it does not work on nitrate-as you stated. Just an FYI

 

[ZoWhat]

I do regard Lanthanum Chloride as a "magic bullet". I have been using it for a few months now and have brought down PO from 1.0 to 0.20 with 1 x 10ml dose added at once, directly to my 120 softie tank.

I dosed about 10 drops of Lan Chlo as Blue Life RX directly to my DT tank to chase my number down to around 0.1

Over the course of 6-8 weeks it started a MELT of 12 strains of zoas and lost about $1000 worth of replacement value

I blame it on accumulating Lanth Phosphates forming and settling out in the DT. Then consumed by zoas that cause them to melt (?). My THEORY....

I NOW use Lan Chloride only in the sump where the exchange of chloride to Phosphate chemically can be collected thru a filter sock

LOSS OF LPS CORAL IF LANTH PHOS IS FLOATING AROUND THE SYSTEM

 

[areefer01]

I did not quote you purposefully and it does not work on nitrate-as you stated. Just an FYI

No worry - I wasn't sure. Also note I didn't mention anything about nitrates. I have only talked about phosphate, my use of phosphate rx, how it will work, and if you go that route to start with a lower dose to see how your system reacts.

 

[Isaac Alves]

I've used Phosphat-E and Phosphate RX for several years directly into my skimmer neck. No ill effects, but I monitor po4 regularly.