Lawnmower Blenny Issues

What other fish where in the tank

Fish: Royal gramma, 2 ocellaris clowns (one snowflake), 2 banggai cardinals and now the flame hawk that was mentioned.

Inverts: emerald crab, 4 astrea snails, brittle star

Coral (all frags): xenia, 2 zoas, paly, duncan, blasto, 2 torches, hammer
 
Fish: Royal gramma, 2 ocellaris clowns (one snowflake), 2 banggai cardinals and now the flame hawk that was mentioned.

Inverts: emerald crab, 4 astrea snails, brittle star

Coral (all frags): xenia, 2 zoas, paly, duncan, blasto, 2 torches, hammer
How big where/are the fish I think I may know what the problem was
 
How big where/are the fish I think I may know what the problem was


The clowns are juveniles, so pretty small (just pushing 1"). The cardinals, gramma and hawk are all "mid sized" I would say? They look about 2" and it seems like they can all get to 3"-4" full grown.
 
The clowns are juveniles, so pretty small (just pushing 1"). The cardinals, gramma and hawk are all "mid sized" I would say? They look about 2" and it seems like they can all get to 3"-4" full grown.
Either an internal parisite or bullying a lot can happen when the lights go out the blenny could have been picked on by the royal or hawkfish most likely the royal since you said it is mean and maybe the other clowns could have attcked the other clown same thing with the cardnials dose with prazipro only thing left that I can think off if not try to get a container and put the bleeny in it then put it in the tank
 
Either an internal parisite or bullying a lot can happen when the lights go out the blenny could have been picked on by the royal or hawkfish most likely the royal since you said it is mean and maybe the other clowns could have attcked the other clown same thing with the cardnials dose with prazipro only thing left that I can think off if not try to get a container and put the bleeny in it then put it in the tank

I had not noticed any bullying/behavioral problems with the gramma until the hawk was added, because the gramma has a little hole in the rocks it likes and the hawk has been perching right outside of the hole. The hawk mostly ignores the gramma. I looked around online and this seems common behaviorally for a gramma.

The clowns ignore the other fish and keep to themselves, and seemed to get along fine, but yes who knows. The cardinals also always kept to themselves, but would occasionally hover near the clowns towards the top of the tank. The other cardinal seems fine still.

It very well could be aggression, just seems like an odd coincidence that two fish would suddenly get the same symptoms the same day.
 
I had not noticed any bullying/behavioral problems with the gramma until the hawk was added, because the gramma has a little hole in the rocks it likes and the hawk has been perching right outside of the hole. The hawk mostly ignores the gramma. I looked around online and this seems common behaviorally for a gramma.

The clowns ignore the other fish and keep to themselves, and seemed to get along fine, but yes who knows. The cardinals also always kept to themselves, but would occasionally hover near the clowns towards the top of the tank. The other cardinal seems fine still.

It very well could be aggression, just seems like an odd coincidence that two fish would suddenly get the same symptoms the same day.
put a camera or phone in front of the tank put it on video when the lights turn off next morning see who the culprit is and take him out
 
put a camera or phone in front of the tank put it on video when the lights turn off next morning see who the culprit is and take him out

Timing does seem coincidental with the hawk, just odd that I’ve seen no signs of aggression from him. He even lets the gramma antagonize him and just ignores it. I may try him in QT for a bit when I get it set up... if I can catch him...
 
So my question to you is, if your params are stable after adding your last fish, and all your fish are behaving normally, look healthy, eating properly, getting along, etc, and you still think it's still too early to add another fish, then what exactly are you waiting for before you add another? Just saying "more time" feels arbitrary (why not "even more time"?), so I am genuinely asking, anecdotally, what indicates to you that your system is ready for another fish?

anecdotally... how about when the previous fish aren't dropping dead.... that would be a good starting point.

Unless I'm misreading this, You've managed to kill 2 out of your first 3 clown fish, which are generally considered one of the hardier fish in the industry and good starter fish precisely because they are so hard to kill.... you've managed to kill more clowns than you've kept.... in just 2 months. and now other fish are dying. That should sink in, but if not, by all means, continue adding fish at the current rate since 'more time' between is just so so arbitrary.

You got a pair of snowflake clowns, one developed a swim bladder issue (?) shortly thereafter and died, correct?
You replaced that clown with another clown and now another clown has been missing for the last week, correct? So we are up to two dead clowns in the last month, correct?
You added a pair of cardinals in the last month, one of which died, correct?
You added a algae blenny in the last month, who is now on death's door, correct?
You added a chromis in the last month that died within 12 hours of being added to the tank, correct?
A royal gramma and a flame hawkfish were also added in the last month, but are alive and well, correct?

At one point, you said your salinity was 1.030, but now its 1.023.

Are you sure all the parameters in this tank are 'good' ?
 
I thought I clarified with the OP that one clown went missing, one blenny is on deaths door, and one cardinal died.

If there are more fish that died recently as suggested, I'm not sure what to say anymore.
 
I thought I clarified with the OP that one clown went missing, one blenny is on deaths door, and one cardinal died.

If there are more fish that died recently as suggested, I'm not sure what to say anymore.

The chromis died a month ago-is that recent enough to be tied to these? I assumed not, but maybe that was incorrect. That was the only death that had occurred before adding my very last fish, the hawkfish.

My snowflake clown looked like he was having swim bladder issues for a couple days but I think it was just odd behavior at this point-he has been totally fine since. I am not sure why this member is making false assumptions or claims about others' tanks.
 
Lawnmower blenny suddenly does not seem his chipper self. He is laying on his side not getting around so well. About to test water and will update with results here.

I have had him for about a month now with no issues. Is this something people have seen before with a blenny? Seems more like a physical issue than disease/parasite.


Test results so far:

PH-8.2 (salifert)

Temp-76.6, 78 (two thermometers in different places)

Salinity - 1.023sg (Milwaukee refractometer)

nitrates- 10 (salifert)

Alkalinity - 6.7 (Hanna, has always run a bit low, I do not dose anything at this point)

Calcium - 440 (Hanna)

Will update with alk, calcium and phosphates shortly
Quarantine ASAP. If you don't have a quarantine tank buy a 1 gallon betta tank from a nearby store. Also I love how clear your water is!
 
In my opinion from what I've read so far, I have a feeling this is a parasite. I think it's something like velvet or ich but in the videos, I can't see any signs of parasites present. Your cardinal died also when your blenny was near the ground I can deduce that it is either a parasite spreading or something in your water chemistry is killing/harming them. Though your corals in your video appear to be okay, so we can possibly eliminate your water chemistry as a problem. You appear to have a Red Sea Reefer 250 it should have an ATO to keep your salinity stable the return pump should provide oxygen to the tank. I don't think oxygen deprivation killed your fish (Cardinal) nor do I think aggression is the problem here. The only conclusion I can come to is that there is a parasite present in your system. I will ask some questions to see what I can think of.

Did you QT your corals for at least 76 days in a fishless tank?
Did you QT your Fish and treat them with copper?
Are there any whites dots present on any fish?
Does your LFS QT fish?

If you do not QT your fish there's a good chance your have some sort of parasites unless your LFS qt them. Same thing with corals. Please do provide close up videos or pictures of any of your fish if you can.
 
Thorough analysis!

  • Reefer 250 - yes
  • ATO - yes
  • As another user pointed out there is also a skimmer which should provide oxygen
  • Did not QT corals. Dipped all but first 2 in Brightwell KoralMD.
  • I have not QT'd any fish. That is about to change... QT gear incoming in the next 2 days.
  • LFS treats with copper and QTs for me. Have only bought fish from the LFS.
  • LFS keeps fish in their frag tanks, for what that's worth
  • I have not seen any strange discolorations so far, especially on the "problem fish", but will keep looking
 
anecdotally... how about when the previous fish aren't dropping dead.... that would be a good starting point.

Unless I'm misreading this, You've managed to kill 2 out of your first 3 clown fish, which are generally considered one of the hardier fish in the industry and good starter fish precisely because they are so hard to kill.... you've managed to kill more clowns than you've kept.... in just 2 months. and now other fish are dying. That should sink in, but if not, by all means, continue adding fish at the current rate since 'more time' between is just so so arbitrary.

You got a pair of snowflake clowns, one developed a swim bladder issue (?) shortly thereafter and died, correct?
You replaced that clown with another clown and now another clown has been missing for the last week, correct? So we are up to two dead clowns in the last month, correct?
You added a pair of cardinals in the last month, one of which died, correct?
You added a algae blenny in the last month, who is now on death's door, correct?
You added a chromis in the last month that died within 12 hours of being added to the tank, correct?
A royal gramma and a flame hawkfish were also added in the last month, but are alive and well, correct?

At one point, you said your salinity was 1.030, but now its 1.023.

Are you sure all the parameters in this tank are 'good' ?
You could lighten up a bit. This is a friendly forum and the OP is new at this and is genuine in trying to solve his problem.
 
Thorough analysis!

  • Reefer 250 - yes
  • ATO - yes
  • As another user pointed out there is also a skimmer which should provide oxygen
  • Did not QT corals. Dipped all but first 2 in Brightwell KoralMD.
  • I have not QT'd any fish. That is about to change... QT gear incoming in the next 2 days.
  • LFS treats with copper and QTs for me. Have only bought fish from the LFS.
  • LFS keeps fish in their frag tanks, for what that's worth
  • I have not seen any strange discolorations so far, especially on the "problem fish", but will keep looking
Since your LFS QT, it's most likely the parasite came from the coral since you can't treat corals with copper. Unfortunately, dipping corals do not stop fish parasites from coming through. Though currently in your videos I haven't seen any whites spots but there is heavy breathing and your blenny and your cardinal seemed lethargic. Right now the best thing is too move them into QT and treat them with copper or cupramine (less harsh copper brand). Instructions to treat the fish should be on the bottle. You need to treat all fish in the DT and the tank must be left fallow (fishless) for 76 days (yes it's a long time but its the only way to starve the parasite.) Nothing must enter the DT no new corals or any fish between the 76 day period. Unless you plan to buy a bunch of coral and throw them in and then start the fallow 76 days, then that's okay.

Make sure you do water changes weekly to keep ammonia down in the QT, most importantly make sure the water you add-in has the same copper level in the tank otherwise if you don't add copper into the new water it will dilute the copper in the tank. Also do not use carbon in your filter because that absorbs the copper. Once you kept the copper level (.5 ppm for cupramine ) at the level that kills parasites for 14 days you can remove the fish into another tank with a new water pump heater etc. If you do not have an extra tank or equipment you can put ur fish in a rubber maid/bucket and then CLEAN with vinegar the tank and equipment they were just in! Then fill it with new saltwater and put the fish back in. It'd be best to use a different filter though because its kind har to clean the sponge filter. At this time you can observe your fish and treat for flukes using prazipro, your fish will need to stay in this tank for 76 days so add some PVC pipes and stuff they're gonna be there for a while and you can add carbon back to help keep the ammonia down.

Good Luck! This was a lot of information, you can do it! This happened to me in my early days of reefing. I didn't QT my fish or corals so I got velvet and that killed EVERY fish I had. So for then on I qt everything! Here is a good link on Qt corals
 
My hawkfish is a savage, hunts my snails at night. Your blenny probably cruised by the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
My hawkfish is a savage, hunts my snails at night. Your blenny probably cruised by the wrong place at the wrong time.
In my opinion, I highly doubt it was fish aggression since several fish have already died prior to the addition of the Hawkfish.
 
In my opinion, I highly doubt it was fish aggression since several fish have already died prior to the addition of the Hawkfish.

Actually, only one died prior to the addition of the hawkfish, and that was a month ago. The recent issues were all post-hawk. I have yet to actually see any signs of aggression from him though.
 
Since your LFS QT, it's most likely the parasite came from the coral since you can't treat corals with copper. Unfortunately, dipping corals do not stop fish parasites from coming through. Though currently in your videos I haven't seen any whites spots but there is heavy breathing and your blenny and your cardinal seemed lethargic. Right now the best thing is too move them into QT and treat them with copper or cupramine (less harsh copper brand). Instructions to treat the fish should be on the bottle. You need to treat all fish in the DT and the tank must be left fallow (fishless) for 76 days (yes it's a long time but its the only way to starve the parasite.) Nothing must enter the DT no new corals or any fish between the 76 day period. Unless you plan to buy a bunch of coral and throw them in and then start the fallow 76 days, then that's okay.

Make sure you do water changes weekly to keep ammonia down in the QT, most importantly make sure the water you add-in has the same copper level in the tank otherwise if you don't add copper into the new water it will dilute the copper in the tank. Also do not use carbon in your filter because that absorbs the copper. Once you kept the copper level (.5 ppm for cupramine ) at the level that kills parasites for 14 days you can remove the fish into another tank with a new water pump heater etc. If you do not have an extra tank or equipment you can put ur fish in a rubber maid/bucket and then CLEAN with vinegar the tank and equipment they were just in! Then fill it with new saltwater and put the fish back in. It'd be best to use a different filter though because its kind har to clean the sponge filter. At this time you can observe your fish and treat for flukes using prazipro, your fish will need to stay in this tank for 76 days so add some PVC pipes and stuff they're gonna be there for a while and you can add carbon back to help keep the ammonia down.

Good Luck! This was a lot of information, you can do it! This happened to me in my early days of reefing. I didn't QT my fish or corals so I got velvet and that killed EVERY fish I had. So for then on I qt everything! Here is a good link on Qt corals

Wow seriously thanks for taking the time to write all this out. I learned a lot just in these paragraphs.

So the only way to “guarantee” coral won’t carry parasites is to quarantine for 76 days, because any parasites would just starve?

Does it make you feel any better that I only buy coral from LFS in person and they keep fish in their frag tanks? Or do you see this as equal risk of ordering online from someone?

Is the key to just QT the coral from the fish? If so does that mean I could theoretically move the coral to a new QT tank, drain the DT, treat the fish for 14 days or whatever you mentioned with copper and prazi, and then put them back in the DT with clean water without the corals? And then add corals back in once they have been in QT for 76 days?

Are inverts (CUC) generally at risk of getting sick and dying from these parasites? Or just potentially carrying them as the article mentioned?
 
Wow seriously thanks for taking the time to write all this out. I learned a lot just in these paragraphs.

So the only way to “guarantee” coral won’t carry parasites is to quarantine for 76 days, because any parasites would just starve?

Does it make you feel any better that I only buy coral from LFS in person and they keep fish in their frag tanks? Or do you see this as equal risk of ordering online from someone?

Is the key to just QT the coral from the fish? If so does that mean I could theoretically move the coral to a new QT tank, drain the DT, treat the fish for 14 days or whatever you mentioned with copper and prazi, and then put them back in the DT with clean water without the corals? And then add corals back in once they have been in QT for 76 days?

Are inverts (CUC) generally at risk of getting sick and dying from these parasites? Or just potentially carrying them as the article mentioned?
Yes, the only way to fully guarantee that your corals won't carry any parasites is to QT for 76 this will starve the parasite as there is no host for them.

Having fish in their frag tank provides some assurance that there isn't velvet (which is a way deadlier disease, it can kill fish in a matter of hours in my experience). but the possibility of ich still lurks as some fish have very thick mucus to hide symptoms. Buying corals online is pretty much equal but I prefer to go to the LFS since you know, you can actually see what you're getting lol and some corals don't do well during shipping.

The key is to QT both corals and fish as they are both possible carriers. The parasites affect fish, however, corals and CUC (inverts) are not affected by parasites but can carry them. Most inverts and corals have a hard surface allowing parasites to attach to them and when you place them in your DT they will hatch and infect your fish. Qt is fish is less bothersome since they only have to remain in (0.5 ppm) copper for 14 days. I forgot to mention earlier but you need to slowly raise the copper for the duration of 4 or 5 days otherwise your fish can go into shock because of how high the copper is. It's like acclimating them to get used to copper.

Last but not least Yes you can drain the DT and refill and put ur fish back without the corals and leave your corals in another tank. However, you should take precautions with this, you'll need to make sure the DT is sterile, the same thing with rock and the sand.

You have two methods to sterilize the tank. Removing the water and letting the tank dry out. No parasite can live without water this can be tricky since there is sand unless you plan on removing the sand, by the time your done qt your fish your tank should be dry enough and sterile. However, knowing that you have a reefer 250 taking water out of the overflow and the sump can be hard and the pumps in the cabinets may not dry.

Another method is to remove the saltwater to and most of the sand and use warm tap water to sterilize it (science shows that in order to kill parasite cyst the water needs to be at least 104 Fahrenheit for at least an hour (you should leave it there for 3 hours just in case). You might as well just leave tap water in the tank for the whole time you while Qtyour fish. I remember reading that tap water can kill parasites since it effectively pops the cyst because of the drastic difference in salinity. Most tap water faucets can output 120 Fahrenheit so you should be okay in sterilizing the tank in a couple of hours. You can possibly use your return pump and a long hose to take water directly out of the sink and pour it into your tank.

Now you'll also need to sterilize your rock. Leave the rock outside the sun for 3 days. Then place it in a bin with half tap water and vinegar for 3 days, then soak it in water for 3 days to clean the vinegar from it. Rinse it again to get any residue off.

If all of this is done correctly you can get your fish back in the DT instead of waiting 76 days but it takes some work for it to happen.

Another method which I've done is to remove your corals and treat the entire DT this can be troubling however because your fish would need to stay in 30 days of copper instead of 14 since you are leaving them since you are effectively killing everything in your tank except your fish of course. ( I do not advise this method since it requires you to monitor your copper level to keep it up since live rock and sand tend to absorb the copper and can leach back out causing copper levels to go to high sometimes and possibly kill your fish. (I've done it before but it was somewhat difficult)
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
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