led light for seagrass /macro help

Gemmsreef

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Hi everyone
i am looking for help and advice on choosing an led light for a 40 gallon long 48x12 tank just for macro and seagrass. I am open to diy but not sure . I have tjought of about doing 24 6500k and 12 blue and 4 reds....just not sire which bulbs to use and hoping someone has hreat experience woth a light...please help!
Cree? Luxeon? Cheap ebays?


Thanks
 
40g is shallow enough I would use 1w led! my 3w china led's will bleach sps in the top 10" of my 180g tank
you will be able to add a few more led's and get a full color spectrum


if you want a kit this one has a great price!! but I would diy one myself with 1w instead. watt for watt 1w are more efficient so it will cost less for more light

Aquarium 36 LEDs Dimmable DIY LED kit with optics
 
Thanks!
Looking for a great color combo ideas and feedback...like. i amI thonking 24 6500k and 6 blues and 6 reds etc.
Anybody else???? Has anyone done a planted tank led and experienced great growth?? With htass and macro?
 
I'm going to be doing an led pico with lots of macro in it but I haven't gotten it off the ground yet. With 24 6500k it is going to be really yellow looking and I'd be worried about not getting that iridescence that some macros have. The macro tanks I've seen use reef lighting so that is what I will be doing. Another thing is repurposing the light later on. I'm leaving myself enough room to be able to add to the light without having to completely reconfigure the whole thing if I want to use it for another application later on. I will be using 3w crees for my tank with a dimmable driver so that I can adjust the light to where I need it and not bleach stuff out but have enough light for a deeper tank later on. I have a DIY cree LED fixture over my frag tank with 14 royal blue and 10 white and it is not too blue at all. I would recommend a similar ratio adding a couple reds and greens to get that full spectrum. I will be modeling mine after the color ratio on the radion since it's gotten so great reviews.
 
40g is shallow enough I would use 1w led! my 3w china led's will bleach sps in the top 10" of my 180g tank
you will be able to add a few more led's and get a full color spectrum


if you want a kit this one has a great price!! but I would diy one myself with 1w instead. watt for watt 1w are more efficient so it will cost less for more light

Aquarium 36 LEDs Dimmable DIY LED kit with optics
I would do 3 watt, in case you want to upgrade later. You can always dim the LEDs if need be, I have to dim my DIY LEDs down to 60% for a 24" deep tank, so dimming is key.
 
In your case, you will want a lower K rating. You should do mostly cool whites, greens, and reds. Royal Blues are not the best for algae growth, but I would add some just to get a nicer color, and some of the high end macro algaes are okay with bluer light, like dragon's breath and other stuff like that.
 
I am actually now thinking about gutting an old 2 bulb 48 inch T5 fixture and retro fitting the leds, heatsink and fans to it. I have narrowed my combo down to the following and I am not sure if I would need any green or anything else as I will have a very strong spectrum for most all plants and seagrass for this shallow tank`:

12 6500k
12 10000k
8 Red
4 Blue
 
I switched two of my freshwater planted tanks over to LEDs a while back. Both are standard 10 gallon glass tanks, one medium light with fertilizer and CO2 dosing and the other low light with no feeding. The medium light tank has 4 Cool White 3w Crees and 2 Neutral White ones driven by a 700mA driver without optics. The plants grow very well and are always pearled when the light is on. The low light tank has 4 Cool White 3w Crees driven by a 350mA driver without optics. It looks dim to the eye but the plants are growing to the point that any brighter and I'd have to fertilize and dose. The only downside is the cool whites alone look too cold for lack of a better word. The med light tank looks perfect on the other hand, like it is lit by the sun itself. No yellowing and no blue dulling, just crisp and bright. My next project is a 29g planted tank and will definitely be mixing cool white with the neutral whites in 2:1 or 1:1. It's medium light with ferts/dosing as well and will be getting 10 3w driven at 700mA with 80 degree optics.

Planted tanks work a bit different from reef tanks, especially in terms of what constitutes high/low light and how to control algae. I've been wanting to do a macro planted tank for a while just haven't bit the bullet yet. For a seagrass only tank, I wouldn't mess with blue or red LEDs. I'd go 2:1 cool white to neutral white 3w Cree LEDs ran at 700mA or 1050mA. 24 on a 48" tank is probably about right though you may need to consider CO2 and slight fertilizing to keep plant growth optimal and algae growth controlled. CO2 dosing marine planted tanks is still newer ground and info is still a bit hard to come by. If you are doing some of the macros that look good with a little actinic like Dragons Breath I'd mix one Royal Blue per 3 white LEDs but the blue quickly dulls the bright green color most people like to see from plants, especially seagrass, so be cautious. Not sure why you want red LEDs? You will have more than enough light for great growth with white if that was a concern. The red shimmering is really distracting and would look pretty unnatural in a planted tank. It also tends to be utilized really well by simple algaes that aren't usually wanted unless on an algae scrubber.

I would recommend:
16 Cree XP-G Cool White
8 Cree XP-G Neutral White
4 Cree XT-E Royal Blue on their own driver
 
For sheer growth of algae, you want 6:1 ratio of Red to royal blue (660nm reds, not Cree 630nm). Any other colors besides deep reds or blues, the vast majority of the spectrum is simply to please your eyes. Cool whites and neutral whites are the the worst for growth macro algae, warm whites are "eh" but don't work all that well either when compared to red:blue combo which is the exact spectrum needed for photosynthesis. Just throwing that info out there so you know what LEDs will be used to grow the stuff in the tank vs just making it look nice to your eyes. You decide what balance works best for you.

6267832234_37bf1abf5d.jpg


5 days worth of growth using the above LEDs.
6267832290_b45a918e77.jpg
 
^ That is the kinda algae I would try to prevent growing and why I wouldn't advise any red LEDs. The planted tank community has shown many times over the white LEDs grow aquatic plants very well along with being pleasing the eye.
 
Sorry, wasn't trying to say white LED is the best spectrum for photosynthesis. What I mean is if you provide the ideal spectrum with all deep red and royal blue LEDs the "nuisance" algaes are gonna outcompete the slower growing desired plants for nutrients and choke them out in growth. I thought that was kinda the purpose of an algae scrubber and changing old bulbs was to prevent this in a display tank.

Balancing the factors that allow plants to grow better than faster growing simpler plants is the key to keeping a planted tank instead of a nuisance algae tank. That is why planted tanks use the lower light intensity, CO2 injection, and fertilizer dosing.
 
The Macros that I am planning to use (halimeda, sea lettuce, pennicillus and Ulva and shaving brush) are mostly the calcareous plants. This tank is a DSB refugium display plumbed into my system. I have heard that 10000k is also a great full spectrum for macro growth. What If I incorporate some of those as well?
 
I have a 110 Gal Refuge lit by 30 XT-E Royal Blue and 12 XP-G Cool White.

Personally I'm not a fan of the 660nm for marine algae growth only because this spectrum is the first blocked in the ocean. That said I've seen some good results using it in a Refuge.

Macro Algae and RBTA growth is great. I literally toss about a 5 Gal Bucket of cheato every other month.

Bill
 
Here is an example of using Red/Blue combo to grow plants. This is a $120 DIY fixture I designed for a friend for a Hydro grow (hot peppers). 660nm LEDs + Royal blues. Best growth either of us have ever seen. The picture of the plants is 1 month of growth since planting the seed. Blows away a 1000w MH and 1/10th the power, and this is because it is only the spectrum needed for photosynthesis, none of the extra "wasteful" spectrum like greens, yellows, and orange that white lights put out. I am just pointing out what is needed for photosynthesis, not trying to say one has to only use these LEDs. If a person wants it pleasing to the eyes obviously they will need whites as well, it is up to the individual to decide how many reds/blues they incorporate into their light according to how much growth they want vs how pleasing to the eyes it is.

I do not agree that reds/blues just = hair algae. That is a maintenance issue, not a light spectrum issue if your planted tank/refugium is being over run with hair algae. People have hair algae issues all the time with RB/CW combo LED lights which has almost no reds in the spectrum.

Looking at graph below, reds are not blocked by the ocean in lagoons to any real extent, and that is where most of the "plants" we use in a refugium come from, shallow waters. You have to go down 10 meters (30 feet), before red light starts to get filtered out by the ocean and since no one has a 30' deep tank at home that is really a non issue if your goal is to grow macro algae as quick as possible (not saying that is the OPs goal, just saying it would grow the best with the use of 660nm reds). Note: I am only talking about plants here, NOT corals, which do react very negatively when too much red light is added.

7212273786_970ac6b110.jpg


7212273688_27ae07729d.jpg


7212255698_0134a5a678.jpg


And finally, here is the spectrum output of Cool White, Neutral White, and Warm white LEDs. You can see the cool white LEDs really drop off in intensity once it hits the red spectrum (above 600nm) where as the warm whites provide quite a bit of the red spectrum, but also A LOT of orange and yellow spectrum so about 1/2 of the output of a warm white LED is wasted light in terms of photosynthesis. If the ideal ratio (according to a NASA study) is 6:1 red(660nm):blue(455nm) ratio for photosynthesis then you can see by the graphs you could never even get close to that ratio because all 3 of the LEDs put out a significant amount of royal blue spectrum as well. Even with warm white LEDs your only looking at a 1:1 ratio. Again, I am just pointing out what is required for the best possible growth of plants, of course plants will still grow with white light, just not nearly as well. If growth isn't a main concern then using all whites is fine.
7212305884_ed26a994ff_o.jpg


Not trying to create an argument, just trying to give good information on how photosynthesis works.
 
Awesome info - I am wondering if anyone has had success growing macro algae with the red blue lights. They are very reasonably priced on ebay I have seen as well.
 
I agree with Ace25. Put in the LEDs that are right in the photosynthesis range for the best bang for the buck. Unfortunately, it's the same range for algae as it is for macro algae since they have the same type of chlorophyll.

CJ
 
Well you have to look at what you are growing and build your spectrum around that. You say sea grasses but then your list latter does not include them.

Sea grass come from very shallow water and should do better with wider spectrum and around 6500 k... They are exposed to more reds yellow and greens.
 
Sea grass come from very shallow water and should do better with wider spectrum and around 6500 k... They are exposed to more reds yellow and greens.

False. This graph shows the light spectrum that photosynthesis (chlorophyll) uses. Notice the complete lack of greens, yellows, and orange spectrum.

7216302294_5a066c970e_o.jpg
 

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