led light for seagrass /macro help

[shred5]

I am not plant expert but plants like corals have other items that affect them which allow them to grow where they do.. If chlorophyll was the only factor most corals could not grow where they do and all the attention we pay to light would make no difference. Why does too much red light hurt some corals even though corals also survive on chlorophyll? Plants also have pigments and protiens that help absorb, shade and filter light.

I use corals in my examples because I am more familiar with them... If we are strictly talking chlorophyll you would be right but there are more factors than just chlorophyll to consider in plants, coral and algae.

Phycobiliprotien is a protein that helps chlorophyll in some algae absorb green light I beleive.

 

[Gemmsreef]

Ace
ehay algae are you growing? What is the spec of your lights and what size fuge?
This is awesome info many thanks

 

[Ace25]

Corals host zoothanthallea (micro algae) for part of their nutrition (last study I read stated about 20% of their nutrional requirements come from zoothanthallae). Corals use their polyps to capture food for the majority of their food requirements (SPS corals more than any other) and take elements from the water (nitrates, phophates, calcium, etc) for growth. When corals "brown out" it is due to too much of something in the water, nutrients, light, excess elements, which cause the zoothanlellae populations to explode in the coral, and since zoothanthallae is brown in color, that is what gives the corals the "browned out" look. Let's not get confused here though, corals vs plants is a completely different topic, corals (zoothanthallae) have slightly different requirements from the light spectrum (same spectrum, but severely skewed towards to blue spectrum with very little red). Corals/zoothanthallae have no mechanism to regulate intake of the red spectrum so it is very easy to over saturate a coral with red light and cause a bleaching event.

True, there are areas other than the spectrum for chlorophyll A/B that are used, but if you look at that graph I posted, that is called the "Photosynthetic absorption spectrum", and shows the entire spectrum used for photosynthesis. There are some (very tiny amount) other spectrums at the bottom of the graph between the Blue and Red range that are used as well, but it is so minor when compared to the spectrums required for chloropyll and it has been proven many times over that those spectrums are not a requirement for growth or even producing fruits (talking land plants in regards to fruits/flowers). Google "hydroponic LED setups", there are many people using solely Red:Blue LEDs for growing things, and when you google image search for "LED Grow light" you will see the vast majority of LED grow lights are only Blue:Red LEDs now. There is a good reason for that, it is proven to be the best and most efficient lighting method for growing plants for today.

Again, I want to stress I am not trying to say anyone must use this or that type of light... I am just posting information so others reading it can make a more informed decision on the path they wish to take in regards to growing plants, whether is be macro algae, magroves, or an apple tree.

 

[shred5]

Again you would be right if were just trying to grow chlorophyll but we are not. Plants and algae have ways of regulating light.. There is a reason some algae can grow in 5 feet of water and others cant or some grow in 50 ft of water and others cant. There is a reason some plants can grow in the shade and others cant or in direct sunlight. They have way of capturing, shading, and regulating light. If it were as easy as just a certain spectrum of light algae and plants could all live in the same conditions of light but they can not. Tell my why sea grass is not found in 50 feet of water or algae in 50 ft of water cant grow in 5 feet? Also technically algae are not plants either. You are not wrong you just are not looking at the whole picture and are right when talking about chlorophyll.

Corals/zoothanthallae have no mechanism to regulate intake of the red spectrum so it is very easy to over saturate a coral with red light and cause a bleaching event

Some corals do and that why they grow in shallow water or can be exposed to direct sunlight during low tide.

 

[Ace25]

To answer Gemmsreef, currently I only use an ATS for filtration, no macro algae at this time. In the past I used/tested under Red:Blue LEDs Caulerpa, Cheato, Halimeda, and Mangroves (caulerpa was by far the best for nutrient uptake/growth but comes at a risk).

shred5, if you can give some examples to the species your referring to in regards to different depths I am sure I can locate the information explaining the reasons why. Most of reasons why algae grows in certain locations/depths isn't lighting related, more of an overall environmental reason (water flow, nutrients, predators, competition, etc).

The Natural Reef Aquarium
The Natural Reef Aquarium - Part Two
The Natural Reef Aquarium - Part Three
The Natural Reef Aquarium - Part Four

Can you name one coral that can regulate red spectrum lighting so I can research it? I know corals can emit a protective coating when exposed to air, and shutdown photosynthesis if needed (photoinhibition), but I have never read of any species being able to keep photosynthesis going and be able to regulate red light while doing so.

 

[jonbar1]

This has definitely been an interesting topic! I've been wanting to do a macroalgae version of a planted tank for some time and the people who have devoted a tank to it are few and far between, especially compared to reef tanks and freshwater planted tanks.

In freshwater planted aquariums the deep blue spike for photosynthesis was found to be far more important and used by the aquatic plants much more than the red spike. Focusing on the red spike led to very poor growth and plants that just limped along. Even warm white LEDs are avoided for their redder spectum and less intensity at the deep blue range. The cool and neutral white LEDs put out enough of the deep blue spike to provide proper growth and have prevailed as the dominant ones used for any freshwater planted tank LED fixture. I have switched all but one of my freshwater planted tanks to LED and would never go back to power compact or fluorescent lighting and plan to switch the final one over as soon as money permits.

For marine macroalgae the deep red spike may be more important. I don't have the experience to say for sure. The research I've done tells me if you want amazing growth on an algae scrubber, use deep red LEDs. If I were going to add a fuge to one of my reef tanks, I'd use a higher ratio of deep red LEDs to royal blues to grow the macroalgae in it because of that. In my display tank though, I'd avoid them. Algae does just fine in my reef without any extra help in the red spectrum and I can't stand the red shimmering on everything.

I'm very interested to see how this turns out with whatever lighting you use. I've searched and searched and there's not a lot of info out there on macro or seagrass dominant tanks like there is on other types. Even things like dosing CO2 for macroalgae are still very debated and in their infancy. Please document your tank here when you do it so we can all learn from it!!

Not trying to derail, but Ace I'm definitely interested in the grow light you built. I currently grow all my orchids and tillandsias under high pressure sodiums but will eventually suppliment them with LED and may one day completely switch over if LEPs don't become affordable. Very cool build and thanks for sharing!

 

[shred5]

To answer Gemmsreef, currently I only use an ATS for filtration, no macro algae at this time. In the past I used/tested under Red:Blue LEDs Caulerpa, Cheato, Halimeda, and Mangroves (caulerpa was by far the best for nutrient uptake/growth but comes at a risk).

shred5, if you can give some examples to the species your referring to in regards to different depths I am sure I can locate the information explaining the reasons why. Most of reasons why algae grows in certain locations/depths isn't lighting related, more of an overall environmental reason (water flow, nutrients, predators, competition, etc).

The Natural Reef Aquarium
The Natural Reef Aquarium - Part Two
The Natural Reef Aquarium - Part Three
The Natural Reef Aquarium - Part Four

Can you name one coral that can regulate red spectrum lighting so I can research it? I know corals can emit a protective coating when exposed to air, and shutdown photosynthesis if needed (photoinhibition), but I have never read of any species being able to keep photosynthesis going and be able to regulate red light while doing so.

Na I don't have the time I am flying to Atlanta to check out the Georgia aquarium and you just keep dodging what I am saying anyway. I really don't think you are understanding what I am saying or are not going to change what you think anyway.

 

[rajkovich207]

I'd like to bring this thread back to life (without the argents of course) I am planning a macro tank to keep sea horses in. It will be a 29 gallon (same dims as a 20 long but tall) and will be a 24 bulb system, I am having a hard time deciding what bulb combo I want to use. If anyone has any recommendations please shout out!

 

[ritter6788]

My prop tank is nothing but different macros, BTAs and a few coral frags. I use one of the 120 1w led fixtures with just whites and blues. I bought the macros as small clippings this past summer and now I have a 30 gallon cube full.

 

[rajkovich207]

Cool thank you. I planned 2 reds maybe a green just because and then a 2:1 ratio 10k:6.5k and maybe a 1:1 ratio whites to blues thoughts? Was also thinking about using a red bulb in my reef but with this thread I'm thinking maybe just 6.5k whites lol, and def pass on a green for the reef. Anyone have any thoughts on the cyan LEDs as well?