LED or Halides

frogman_reefer · Jul 13, 2015

I am still considered new to the hobby, right now on my 125 reef I have 2 250watt MH with 2 t5 (1- purple and 1- daylight) along with two moonlight led t5 modular bulbs.

My tanks looking good, but I can't ramp up more light from the setup. I feel limited in what I can do with this fixture, but am afraid to drop the $$$ to get new halide fixtures or LED's.

Here's a few images of my setup, any recommendations? All suggestions will be taken seriously, so serious responses only if you don't mind.

My budget is 700.00 for the lighting project.

steve&mari · Jul 13, 2015

We run the ocean revive arctic t247 on our 40b and love it. Colors are awesome growth on zoas and acans been very happy with. Scoly is almost always super puffed up as are acans. I've been pulling out rainbow colors in acans by keeping them outta direct light. Tanks not ready for sps but others say it does well with sps. You could get 3 and have money left.

frogman_reefer · Jul 13, 2015

steve&mari said:
We run the ocean revive arctic t247 on our 40b and love it. Colors are awesome growth on zoas and acans been very happy with. Scoly is almost always super puffed up as are acans. I've been pulling out rainbow colors in acans by keeping them outta direct light. Tanks not ready for sps but others say it does well with sps. You could get 3 and have money left.

Nice, that always sounds good to me. I'm running 20k right now. But this looks like a viable option, thanks!

d2mini · Jul 13, 2015

If you want a decent amount of SPS, i would stick with MH/T5. Or move to T5/LED.
Either way, you need a longer fixture and get it up a little higher for better spread. You don't want the spotlight effect you have now, and that will be much worse with LED.
If you want to move to LED, plan on buying a lot and spending a lot. You HAVE to cover the tank in them. Don't believe the coverage specs from the manufacturers.

hybridazn · Jul 13, 2015

Stick with what you have and just raise the fixture up a few inches. It will look completely different

frogman_reefer · Jul 13, 2015

d2mini said:
If you want a decent amount of SPS, i would stick with MH/T5. Or move to T5/LED.
Either way, you need a longer fixture and get it up a little higher for better spread. You don't want the spotlight effect you have now, and that will be much worse with LED.
If you want to move to LED, plan on buying a lot and spending a lot. You HAVE to cover the tank in them. Don't believe the coverage specs from the manufacturers.

hybridazn said:
Stick with what you have and just raise the fixture up a few inches. It will look completely different

Do you two recommend me doing a ceiling mount or is there better bracketing I can use without adding a canopy?

Maybe I should add a canopy?

steve&mari · Jul 13, 2015

Canopy will trap more heat so fans shouldn't be left out. Personally I'd make a bracket to hang it from. Also agree moving your lighting up will increase spread. I've used conduit to make ours.

frogman_reefer · Jul 13, 2015

steve&mari said:
Canopy will trap more heat so fans shouldn't be left out. Personally I'd make a bracket to hang it from. Also agree moving your lighting up will increase spread. I've used conduit to make ours.

Great idea, I like this DIY

. Right up my alley! Thanks for the suggestion

Touring · Jul 13, 2015

hybridazn said:
Stick with what you have and just raise the fixture up a few inches. It will look completely different

He is right. thats a perfect light!!!! raise that thing!!

frogman_reefer · Jul 13, 2015

Touring said:
He is right. thats a perfect light!!!! raise that thing!!

Ok. Will do!

Do I have to worry about losing par?

d2mini · Jul 13, 2015

frogman_reefer said:
Ok. Will do!

Do I have to worry about losing par?

No, you have more than enough.
In fact, you will gain extra par on the ends of the tank by raising the light.

frogman_reefer · Jul 13, 2015

Awesome. That makes me happy. Appreciate everyones help and insght

d2mini said:
No, you have more than enough.
In fact, you will gain extra par on the ends of the tank by raising the light.

bwrag · Jul 13, 2015

id raise them up, but i can tell you from current experience. on my dt i have MH and my sps look great and lps and zoa are soso. on my frag i have led my lps and zoa look awsome and sps looks soso.

frogman_reefer · Jul 13, 2015

bwrag said:
id raise them up, but i can tell you from current experience. on my dt i have MH and my sps look great and lps and zoa are soso. on my frag i have led my lps and zoa look awsome and sps looks soso.

Ok, so raise it up and go buy me a LED and build me a frag tank for Zoa and LPS

. Awesome! Best advice I've had all day!!! Hahaha!!!

d2mini · Jul 13, 2015

Everything goes nuts under my MH/T5. I think my LPS are happy.

WetWhistle · Jul 13, 2015

I run three hydra 52 LED on my 180 and I have no issue coloring up or growing SPS, LPS zoas etc. You just need to figure out placement and settings. People like to lump all LED into the same category and treat them the same. That is like saying all cars are the same or all MH bulbs are the same. This is inaccurate and wrong. If you get good quality LED you can grow anything and you don't need to cover your tank with an army of them to do it. If you get cheaper Chinese LED they are not as good and you do need more of them. (For some of the brands at least) You get what you pay for really.

I ran MH for over 20 years on my tank till I switched to LED three years ago and I have not looked back. I used to run a total of 910 watts with three 250 watt MH and 4 X 40 watt T5 Actinic. Now on the same tank I run three 135 watt LED with a total of 405 watts. I cut 505 watts and no bulb replacement for a few years. The room that my tank was in dropped 4 degrees after I took down the MH.

Downside to LED is the startup cost is not as cheap if you stick with one of the higher end brands. But if you factor in cost of yearly bulb replacement and energy cost for MH or T5, in a few years you make back your money. LED are not plug and play so to speak like MH or T5 so it does take some fine tuning for spectrum and intensity. It takes a little bit of a learning curb on where you need to place corals, what spectrum you want and intensity. But once you have them dialed in they are worth it. I love that I can control them on my Apex as well and have more flexibility.

Don't get me wrong MH are tried and true and do produce great results but if you want more flexibility in programing, better energy efficiency take a look at LED. People need to remember MH are not the only bulb that can grow corals. Just like when T5 came out people said they can't grow corals only MH can. Guess how that turned out? LED are the new technology in the game and just need more years of running till people learn to accept them.

But in this case with a $700 budget you are better off to raise it up and go buy a LED and build a frag tank for Zoa and LPS or save up for the higher end lights that you want.

d2mini · Jul 13, 2015

quality, brand etc makes no difference. It's the number of leds. Most people don't want to spend the cash to buy enough of them, especially on large tanks.
I can tell you that my 3x mh and 4x T5, BLOWS AWAY the 4 radion pros I had over my 7' tank BECAUSE i did not have enough of them. The tank needed at least two more.
But that's A LOT of cash to invest in lighting when the current mh/t5 setup cost me $1k and that included bulbs.

frogman_reefer · Jul 13, 2015

d2mini said:
Everything goes nuts under my MH/T5. I think my LPS are happy.

Beautiful tank!!!

frogman_reefer · Jul 13, 2015

I think whatever works for you. But I have friends that swear MH are it and other friends that say LED is the best for your buck. I got the answer that suited me, but hearing the discussion has made me wonder if I should try. Ushio vs Radion vs. King Kong vs. the swamp thing. Sounds like an epic battle of sea creatures to me.

I admit I am not as smart in the ways of aquatic development, but I love hearing the arguments and seeing some FABULOUS TANKS! I aspire to have one of those one day. But right now it's simple and doing simple the best I can.

With that being said, if there is a sponsor out there who would like to give me a LED setup to run compare my tanks current setup. I'd gladly tank that offer and write a very thorough report... Hahahaha. Yeah. I don't honk so either. Ahh, here's to wishful thinkers.

WetWhistle · Jul 13, 2015

d2mini said:
quality, brand etc makes no difference. It's the number of leds. Most people don't want to spend the cash to buy enough of them, especially on large tanks.
I can tell you that my 3x mh and 4x T5, BLOWS AWAY the 4 radion pros I had over my 7' tank BECAUSE i did not have enough of them. The tank needed at least two more.
But that's A LOT of cash to invest in lighting when the current mh/t5 setup cost me $1k and that included bulbs.

Quality and brand do make a huge difference. The better quality ones have better optics that have a better blending of light and a higher number of led that are properly spaced for better light output and distribution. I have used both cheaper brands of LED and higher end brands and they are like night and day. Are all MH bulb brands the same? I think not.

So you are saying a 180 gallon is not a larger tank? I run three on a 6 foot tank with absolutely no issues growing corals SPS or otherwise that are light related yet you need double the amount of LED because of an extra foot on your tank? Even now you have to run three 250 watt MH (I assume the wattage) or more and 4 T5. How is that better? You just decided to take another path. I am not saying you lighting system is not working, in your case it came down to not wanting to spend the money to get another LED fixture.
MH allows you to easily go with a larger bulb vs LED you have to get another fixture. But you still have to use more wattage in the process and eat up way more hydro and create heat to do it.There are plenty of thriving led reef tank around mine included to say they don't work.

I can prove my claim for growth. I have tested the different lighting. I have a few tanks all plumed into my sump that is connected to my DT and I used the various lighting on each tank. I fragged the same coral a few times with many species of coral and put them under the different lights. I used my DT LED, 250 MH and cheaper LED. All have the same environment as all are plummed together in the same system and the only difference between them is lighting. The cheaper LED didn't grow or color sps or lps as well as the MH or my Hydra52. Out of the hydra52 and MH I see little difference in most species of SPS, except some liked a little different placement then I would have under the MH. I did notice in lps, soft corals and zoas particularly they loved them.

Just because someone has a larger tank doesn't mean they have to only use MH. In my experience at least. There are plenty of larger reef tanks including my own that are thriving under LED.

d2mini said:
quality, brand etc makes no difference. It's the number of leds. Most people don't want to spend the cash to buy enough of them, especially on large tanks.
I can tell you that my 3x mh and 4x T5, BLOWS AWAY the 4 radion pros I had over my 7' tank BECAUSE i did not have enough of them. The tank needed at least two more.
But that's A LOT of cash to invest in lighting when the current mh/t5 setup cost me $1k and that included bulbs.