LED or Halides

[d2mini]

You seemed to miss the part where I said both grow coral. Not sure why you are repeating that. But your definition of thriving is different than mine. Because once those frags grow into colonies there is just not enough spread unless your lights are mounted really freakin high. I've got pics of before and afters that show the difference in growth. Shading with SPS lit by led is a killer. The problem multiplies as the coral grow. The only really successful led SPS tanks I've seen are covered in them. I've seen success with everything from cheap eBay boxes on up to Radions but you need enough.

Wattage has nothing to do with it. My single 250w mh in a proper reflector has much better spread than a radion pro with wide angle lenses. Then add t5 on top of that and it's a night and day difference.

So again, any current lighting system can grow coral. Just depends what kind of coral, how much, and what your expectations are. I run a nano box led over my 10g fusion. It's ok, not great. But I only have zoas and other softies.

 

[WetWhistle]

You came off sounding like only MH work that was my issue at first. This was not your intention.

I also have large sps colonies and have no issue with shading, same with a lot of people in my local reef hobby. You can't generalize all led have this issue as they grow because they don't. We have had different experiences with them obviously and will have to agree to disagree.

 

[d2mini]

I fully understand that your mileage may vary as they say, but it's just the physics of LED. They are a pinpoint light source. You can not get around this fact. Until someone comes up with a way to reflect the light back into the tank like MH or T5, it's just the way it is.
The only way to get around it is to add more LED. Have you seen the Lani LED panels? That's the only unit I've seen so far that is on the right track. You basically end up with one huge light panel that covers the entire tank.
The only way for you not to have shading issues is to have your LED higher or to have more of them per square inch. Or your sps directly underneath so as to stay within the narrow cone of light.

I was on my phone earlier (i hate tapatalk) so here is an example of what happens when you go from a pinpoint light source like led to something with more spread like mh/t5.
This is from my tank. Two years under LED (4 radion pros) over my 7' tank, and then a few months under MH/T5.
And this coral was not at the edge of the tank, it was about 1/3rd of the way in and half way up. Lights were about 10" over the water.
The result is what happens when the coral is shading itself.
Note the color change and PE underneath and the change in tighter growth pattern up top.

By all accounts, the LED coral was growing great!
But you can't deny the improvement after just 3 months under mh/t5.
I bet results would have been similar if I would have added more LED fixtures over the tank.
But I also had a few other reasons for switching back.

 

[hart24601]

I do agree with d2mini that in general it takes a whole lot more fixtures than the manufactures say - at least for SPS colonies and as he said I think the Lani is a great example. But I disagree the quality doesn't matter. My tank instantly looked better switching from reefbreeders to AI. The colors, especially reds, really popped out more. As for growth despite having the surface of my 4' 120 covered with 3 value fixtures the PAR wasn't that high and switching to more powerful LEDs gave me more oomph on the bottom for growth.

 

[WetWhistle]

LED are tricky sometimes to troubleshoot and see what is really going on. I can see in some situations more LED are needed for sure but not every time. In other situations growth is effected because they are tuned wrong, the spectrum is wrong or the intensity is to low\High. Sometimes a simple change in color spectrum or change of intensity fixes this issue.

I have seen a few friends at their wits with LED and were about to switch back to MH. I came over and adjusted the LED spectrum\ intensity and over the next few weeks color came back and growth exploded, even what looked like shading disappeared. They were going to get MH because they were convinced that LED were not good enough for their tank. After I adjusted them they ended up keeping the lights. Other times I have seen people blame the lighting but they didn't have proper flow in the tank or the corals were not getting enough food. Lots of things effect coral growth but people tend to fixate on lighting as the cause. Don't get me wrong sometimes the lighting is not enough even after you have locked in everything and you do end up having to get more.

An advantage with MH is you just plug them in and adjust to height and they work. You don't need to tinker with the settings like you do with LED.
When I switched for my Maxspect to AI I seen a huge difference in color and growth like hart24601 did. Since LED are newer then MH or T5 it will take time for people to figure out settings and coral placement.

 

[d2mini]

But I disagree the quality doesn't matter.

Yeah it's an over generalization. Of course higher wattage LED, more colors, etc will be an improvement. But you also don't need all those extra bells and whistles.

LED are tricky sometimes to troubleshoot and see what is really going on. I can see in some situations more LED are needed for sure but not every time. In other situations growth is effected because they are tuned wrong, the spectrum is wrong or the intensity is to low\High. Sometimes a simple change in color spectrum or change of intensity fixes this issue.

I have seen a few friends at their wits with LED and were about to switch back to MH. I came over and adjusted the LED spectrum\ intensity and over the next few weeks color came back and growth exploded, even what looked like shading disappeared. They were going to get MH because they were convinced that LED were not good enough for their tank. After I adjusted them they ended up keeping the lights. Other times I have seen people blame the lighting but they didn't have proper flow in the tank or the corals were not getting enough food. Lots of things effect coral growth but people tend to fixate on lighting as the cause. Don't get me wrong sometimes the lighting is not enough even after you have locked in everything and you do end up having to get more.

I agree with what you are saying but we are talking about two different things.
The pic example I posted above has nothing to do with spectrum or intensity. Well, I can't really say that. Maybe it does to some degree, but as you can see, both lamps grew the coral.
But the SPREAD makes all the difference in getting light to wrap around the coral or reach to the farthest ends of the tank.

 

[shred5]

Everything goes nuts under my MH/T5. I think my LPS are happy.

Nice looking tank..

 

[WetWhistle]

I agree with what you are saying but we are talking about two different things.
The pic example I posted above has nothing to do with spectrum or intensity. Well, I can't really say that. Maybe it does to some degree, but as you can see, both lamps grew the coral.
But the SPREAD makes all the difference in getting light to wrap around the coral or reach to the farthest ends of the tank.[/QUOTE]

I do see a difference in growth in you pics. In your case it clearly liked your MH\T5 and is growing nice and compact. I do love MH I just don't like the electricity cost to run them. What it really comes down to is you need to love your equipment that you are using or it takes away from your tank viewing. If you were not 100% sold on LED you made the right decision to switch as you will get better enjoyment out of it.

 

[WetWhistle]

I am still considered new to the hobby, right now on my 125 reef I have 2 250watt MH with 2 t5 (1- purple and 1- daylight) along with two moonlight led t5 modular bulbs.

My tanks looking good, but I can't ramp up more light from the setup. I feel limited in what I can do with this fixture, but am afraid to drop the $$$ to get new halide fixtures or LED's.

Here's a few images of my setup, any recommendations? All suggestions will be taken seriously, so serious responses only if you don't mind.

My budget is 700.00 for the lighting project.

I like your rock work a lot. Once you lock down your lighting and the reef matures this is going to be an interesting reef to view.

 

[d2mini]

I do love MH I just don't like the electricity cost to run them.

Yep, i hear ya.
In fact I have another thread going about adding cooling fans to my canopy to help cut down on the chiller usage.
Luckily though, electricity is fairly cheap here in the houston area. You don't have your location filled out in your profile, but here its only about 9 cents per kw/hr.
So the three 250w mh and four 40w t5 are only costing me about an extra $100/year to run vs the four radion pros.
The chiller during the summer costs me about $32/month. In the winter the chiller doesn't run and my heaters run much less.
So in my case the difference is pretty negligible and any extra costs is totally worth it. For me.
If I was in California... man... I'd be hating life. lol

 

[frogman_reefer]

I like your rock work a lot. Once you lock down your lighting and the reef matures this is going to be an interesting reef to view.

I appreciate that, I made all those rocks out of "aragocrete". It went through 4 or 5 iterations and I think I finally like its end result. Still think I might add a few shelf pieces to increase my surface area for encrusting montipora. I'll post more when I raise my lighting.

I think I'll leave my euphyllia corner though (right side of tank) they seem to be thriving there.

 

[frogman_reefer]

Yep, i hear ya.
In fact I have another thread going about adding cooling fans to my canopy to help cut down on the chiller usage.
Luckily though, electricity is fairly cheap here in the houston area. You don't have your location filled out in your profile, but here its only about 9 cents per kw/hr.
So the three 250w mh and four 40w t5 are only costing me about an extra $100/year to run vs the four radion pros.
The chiller during the summer costs me about $32/month. In the winter the chiller doesn't run and my heaters run much less.
So in my case the difference is pretty negligible and any extra costs is totally worth it. For me.
If I was in California... man... I'd be hating life. lol

I don't have a chiller on my system, we keep our house at 76• and a ceiling fan on which helps prevent heat buildup from the MH. I'm in San Antonio, so my electric bill is not bad for the size of my house. I haven't even bothered trying to compare costs.

 

[WetWhistle]

I appreciate that, I made all those rocks out of "aragocrete". It went through 4 or 5 iterations and I think I finally like its end result. Still think I might add a few shelf pieces to increase my surface area for encrusting montipora. I'll post more when I raise my lighting.

I think I'll leave my euphyllia corner though (right side of tank) they seem to be thriving there.

I always like to wait and see if I need the extra space for growing room before adding rock. It can be tricky to blend the new rock and not have it look like and after thought. But if done carefully it can add a good affect. In this case with encrusting monti it would fill in anything that did not look quite right with coral.

The euphyllia corner as they get bigger really adds movement into a tank. Well worth it.

 

[d2mini]

I don't have a chiller on my system, we keep our house at 76• and a ceiling fan on which helps prevent heat buildup from the MH.

I didn't either when I had an open top tank.
We keep our house at 69 at night and 72-73 during the day, but the full canopy retains the heat. That's why I added the fans recently.

 

[WetWhistle]

Yep, i hear ya.
In fact I have another thread going about adding cooling fans to my canopy to help cut down on the chiller usage.
Luckily though, electricity is fairly cheap here in the houston area. You don't have your location filled out in your profile, but here its only about 9 cents per kw/hr.
So the three 250w mh and four 40w t5 are only costing me about an extra $100/year to run vs the four radion pros.
The chiller during the summer costs me about $32/month. In the winter the chiller doesn't run and my heaters run much less.
So in my case the difference is pretty negligible and any extra costs is totally worth it. For me.
If I was in California... man... I'd be hating life. lol

I am from Canada and hydro is not the cheapest. Our off peak is 8 cents per kw/hr but we have smart meters so we also have mid peak hrs of 12.2 cents per kw/hr and the worst part is on peak of 16.1 cents per kw/hr. So it all adds up. When I switched from MH/ T5 my hydro dropped quite a lot per month.

 

[frogman_reefer]

Ok, so I took some advice and bought risers that raised the lights by only 2 inches, I also shifted the light towards the back of the tank and it's actually giving me more light coverage. I still have 1 section (left that has low light, but that's where my NPS coral is.

I also too the liberty of moving some corals around in the tank. Do you all notice the difference at all?

Pre


Post

Remember. This was only 2 inches.

Can you all see what moved?