LFS detective work!

JonPhillips · Apr 28, 2016

Scottsquatch said:
I'm sure nobody wants that at all. As a community, we just want to see everybody succeed. I think all the concern comes in that it is a bit of an unorthodox method. Be sure to log your results, I would be very interested to see how things turn out. Good luck!

lol. I know, just some kind hearted jesting is all. R2R has been a great help to me already! so. many. questions. just. keep. asking.

TaylorPilot · Apr 28, 2016

Also, as far as the $ per gallon thing. If you start figuring in the price of salt, and DI resin, you soon realize they are operating that at about a 25-30% margin, so they aren't screwing you. Remember a bottle of water is $1.50. They guys are making purer water, then adding synthetic salt, and selling you 5 times as much for less money! If you think about it that way, you're robbing them!

JonPhillips · Apr 28, 2016

TaylorPilot said:
Also, as far as the $ per gallon thing. If you start figuring in the price of salt, and DI resin, you soon realize they are operating that at about a 25-30% margin, so they aren't screwing you. Remember a bottle of water is $1.50. They guys are making purer water, then adding synthetic salt, and selling you 5 times as much for less money! If you think about it that way, you're robbing them!

Nice math there. Yeah, TBH I have no problem mixing my own water, or making the RODI for that matter, or even paying a business what a product is worth, because, hey, everybody want something for free but everybody need to make a living. I think it was Nemo from finding Nemo that said that, or what is Jacques the shrimp...

TaylorPilot · Apr 28, 2016

LOL, we haven't gotten into that yet. We are stuck on frozen. I know every song and catch myself stopping what I am doing to hear them. Don't tell anyone though!

JonPhillips · Apr 28, 2016

TaylorPilot said:
LOL, we haven't gotten into that yet. We are stuck on frozen. I know every song and catch myself stopping what I am doing to hear them. Don't tell anyone though!

BAHAHAHAHA our frozen soundtrack in on auto play in our van. I am SO cool! Your secret is safe with me, bro!

RyanCSGO · Apr 28, 2016

i was purchasing "filtered marina water" from my LFS for a long time.
i switched stores recently and the new LFS i go to uses RODI with synth. and im tellin you man, the results in the tank are sooo much better. i would mix my own but i havent purchased a nice RODI yet.

TaylorPilot · Apr 28, 2016

Dude! You just got me a trophy! 250 likes!

JonPhillips · Apr 28, 2016

RyanCSGO said:
i was purchasing "filtered marina water" from my LFS for a long time.
i switched stores recently and the new LFS i go to uses RODI with synth. and im tellin you man, the results in the tank are sooo much better. i would mix my own but i havent purchased a nice RODI yet.

Good call. Glad to hear that.

JPSika08 · Apr 28, 2016

JonPhillips said:
I stand corrected. @JPSika08 turned his used saltwater over to help jumpstart his hospital tank and if a guy who can build a tank like that can do it, then there must be something there.

Just a note on this, I drained that water and filled it with new produced water.
This is a hobby in which taking shortcuts will hit you in the face in the short run.

The tank is going to be used only for 2 Week as an observation tank and maybe treat fish with Pazipro after the 12 days of TTM, so water here is not so important, after the 2 weeks, this tank will be drained again and new water will be produced for the next batch of fish. What I'm doing is that I have several seeded sponges in my main system's sump, I will use them so there will be some bacteria in there to take care of ammonia in case it spikes a little.

Hope this helps.

JonPhillips · Apr 28, 2016

JPSika08 said:
Just a note on this, I drained that water and filled it with new produced water.
This is a hobby in which taking shortcuts will hit you in the face in the short run.

The tank is going to be used only for 2 Week as an observation tank and maybe treat fish with Pazipro after the 12 days of TTM, so water here is not so important, after the 2 weeks, this tank will be drained again and new water will be produced for the next batch of fish. What I'm doing is that I have several seeded sponges in my main system's sump, I will use them so there will be some bacteria in there to take care of ammonia in case it spikes a little.

Hope this helps.

Dude, thank you. So helpful!

Caseyoidae · Apr 28, 2016

good luck!

JonPhillips · Apr 28, 2016

Caseyoidae said:
good luck!

I am gonna need it!

Waterjockey · Apr 28, 2016

JonPhillips said:
So, in planning to cycle my new tank I thought it would be advantageous to acquire used salt water from my local fish store to do so. You know, jumpstart the process and score a freebie. Not so fast. Have called 4 places so far and only one would be willing to do this and was also very hesitant, as if the stars would need to align for when they would be doing a water change and I would be present in the store. Like what, you never change your water? I thought, that's weird? But then I realized, they don't want me taking their water home and testing it! AH-HA!

Therefore, every fish store worth its salt (pun totally intended) must post its latest water test results to the side of any tank selling livestock. Don't you want to know the water parameters from the tanks your buying fish and livestock from?

Sounds legit right?

I just bought some corals this afternoon. Out of curiosity, I decided to check the salinty of the water in the bags from the lfs, as I had heard often they keep the salinty low as a cost measure. I was quite surprised to see it at about 40ppm! I checked the calibration of my refactometer, and it was good. Now I am thinking I should have tested all the usual parameters out of curiosity. Either my calibration fluid is way off, or they have some reason to have such high salinity? This was a one-of, maybe a new guy made a too high batch and they are just letting it decay via makeup, or who knows. Odd, to me anyways

Cheers!

john.m.cole3 · May 3, 2016

JonPhillips said:
Still free.

Yes free vs around 30 or More in water and salt cost. I see where you're coming from. Good idea!

john.m.cole3 · May 3, 2016

jsker said:
the reason that they are doing to water change is to replenish the trace elements. With a system with fish and corals in it the corals are going to deplete the trace elements. The hypothetical: what happen is the do not know it yet and they have an out break of velvet or another disease and do not know it yet, and now it is in your tank? Then you add live stock and then your are out of business for at least 72 day

Everything I have received free has always cost me some way on another

Oh good point in the disease factor. I vote against now because I am personally going through a 72 day fallow period for something I paid for let alone free. @jsker is smart

Live Water · May 3, 2016

Also you could easily get some water to test from the store by buying a fish or coral from them.

JonPhillips · May 3, 2016

Waterjockey said:
I just bought some corals this afternoon. Out of curiosity, I decided to check the salinty of the water in the bags from the lfs, as I had heard often they keep the salinty low as a cost measure. I was quite surprised to see it at about 40ppm! I checked the calibration of my refactometer, and it was good. Now I am thinking I should have tested all the usual parameters out of curiosity. Either my calibration fluid is way off, or they have some reason to have such high salinity? This was a one-of, maybe a new guy made a too high batch and they are just letting it decay via makeup, or who knows. Odd, to me anyways

Cheers!

very interesting. Thank you.

JonPhillips · May 3, 2016

Live Water said:
Also you could easily get some water to test from the store by buying a fish or coral from them.

Good point!

JonPhillips · May 3, 2016

john.m.cole3 said:
Oh good point in the disease factor. I vote against now because I am personally going through a 72 day fallow period for something I paid for let alone free. @jsker is smart

Yup. watching out for this.

melypr1985 · May 3, 2016

JonPhillips said:
Was not aware of the copper issue.

I work at a very good LFS. We have a "fish only" system where we run copper constantly at therapeutic levels. I personally check the copper levels every other day.

TaylorPilot said:
The real problem is that most LFS don't do water changes. And it isn't because they are lousy at doing maintenance. It is because every fish they bag up takes half a gallon of water out the system. If you sold 10 fish you just removed 5 gallons of salt water that has to be replenished with new saltwater. I have seen some larger stores go through two buckets of salt in a few days just replenishing the water in the systems they put in the bags when they sale live stock. So it isn't that they are afraid you are going to check their parameters, it is that there isn't any old water to give you.

I hope they do water changes! I spend so much time every week doing water changes on these HUGE systems! We have a 900 gallon fish only system that I do a 300 gallon water change on every wednesday - as an example. Oh well, that makes them a little lazy in my book.

Oh and @JonPhillips , you dont want to use your LFS's used up water. It's gross, full of poo and crap they probably siphoned off the bottom and probably has parasites floating in it. Same goes for a friend's tank. You just can't trust whats in it and when you first start up your tank you want to do it on the right foot. You know? You dont want to start your tank up the cheapest way possible and end up with headaches right off the bat. I'll second the idea of Instant Ocean being the way to start up the tank cheaply. You can always switch to a better salt later on. Anyway, Good luck!