LFS said "no need to QT!"

[LovesDogs_CatsRokay]

Although on the other hand, their experience could be that most customers don't do QT correctly and wind up killing more fish than they cure. I can't say that this is always incorrect; QT is intimidating and can be hard to do successfully.

Could be this. One LFS near me is always suspicious of my QT practices and always asks a ton of questions about what I’m doing. I get the feeling they think I don’t have a clue. Of course, they had never heard of TTM and looked at me like I was insane when I tried to explain it, so I just leave that part out now.

 

[P-Dub]

WOW! Just, WOW! That's all I can say. Alright, I throw in an UNBELIEVABLE!

 

[mattzang]

sad stuff

my LFS told me to not QT too. or if i do to just observe. When I asked about velvet, they laughed and said that's when you go online and start thinking about what new fish you want. They assured me their fish are good to go and poured some prazi in their tanks along with some copper in their shark tank. I asked if that was smart and they were like nah it's fine we do it all the time. Oh, do you measure how much you put in? Nah, just a little helps.

suffice to say, I drive 30+ minutes to a legit LFS now.

 

[Saveafish]

sad stuff

my LFS told me to not QT too. or if i do to just observe. When I asked about velvet, they laughed and said that's when you go online and start thinking about what new fish you want. They assured me their fish are good to go and poured some prazi in their tanks along with some copper in their shark tank. I asked if that was smart and they were like nah it's fine we do it all the time. Oh, do you measure how much you put in? Nah, just a little helps.

suffice to say, I drive 30+ minutes to a legit LFS now.

Ive had sharks and rays before. Copper is a super big NO NOO. :mad:

 

[mattzang]

Ive had sharks and rays before. Copper is a super big NO NOO. :mad:

i have not, but i knew that was a big no no. that said, they were putting so little in it probably doesn't bother them, but still stupid.

i think they mean well, but they're woefully ignorant of things in this hobby. i've had a tank since like march, lurking on here since summer sometime, and i'm pretty sure i know more than they do. claims such as "ich only lasts for a day" told me about all i needed to know

 

[Rjukan]

That whole video is sad.

Yeah, I stopped halfway. Saw enough misery for today.

 

[ca1ore]

There are plenty of experienced, long tenured reefers that don’t quarantine so I’d hardly judge that as necessarily bad advice. Done for an adequate period, observation alone is entirely reasonable as well. So neither of those things are disqualifying for a LFS in my view. Now, that initial video is brutal. I’d not buy any of those poor fish.

I don’t personally bother with YouTube videos, unless I’m directed there by somebody who I already know to be credible - or as a way to embed my own tank videos into threads here. Just too many people who really don’t have the foggiest idea of what they’re talking about.

 

[cmcoker]

Sheesh, watched that with no sound but Sarah Mclachlan started going in my head.

 

[lagatbezan]

I feel so bad for those poor helpless fish! It's so heartbreaking and sad

 

[Fastpitch]

There are plenty of experienced, long tenured reefers that don’t quarantine so I’d hardly judge that as necessarily bad advice. Done for an adequate period, observation alone is entirely reasonable as well. So neither of those things are disqualifying for a LFS in my view. Now, that initial video is brutal. I’d not buy any of those poor fish.

I don’t personally bother with YouTube videos, unless I’m directed there by somebody who I already know to be credible - or as a way to embed my own tank videos into threads here. Just too many people who really don’t have the foggiest idea of what they’re talking about.

No doubt. However, with recent outbreaks and conditions seemgly to be getting much worse, is a no QT approach even workable anymore? Ich is one thing and can apparently be managed, but uronema, velvet and bacterial infections appear be, in many cases a death sentence. I am new to the hobby, so I dont have the persective of how things were back in the day. I guess we all will find out as this thing plays out.

I buy my fish at petco, partly because I like the challenge. Working on (5 now 4) uronema chromis and a Ich-lympho-fluke coral beauty right now. My anecdotal experience is that the are ALL diseased.

 

[jt17]

This LFS doesn’t deserve to be in business. If they were selling dogs and cats that were that sick they would be shut down and charged with animal cruelty and neglect. It’s examples like this that make our hobby look bad. I say out this place.
Never buy anything from stores like this. Even if you think you’re helping that one fish you buy, your encouraging that store to bring in more fish into their diseased system. Many LFS now days make most of their profits on maintenance and coral sales. Sales of fish have lower profit margins. Guess where their efforts will be directed. That’s right, to where the money is.
I have one LFS that I go to for fish because he qts all incoming fish in a separate qt system. He says his fish are as clean as he can make them and still even recommends you qt at home. I gladly pay more for his fish because I respect the integrity.

 

[Reefahholic]

I hear this over and over again. People want the LFS named. They want the wholesaler named. I honestly haven’t been to one LFS that has 100% clean fish. I’ve seen just about everything at every store around. Even when I travel it’s no different.

The purpose of this video was to bring awareness to other reefers who do not quarantine, and who use the “pop and drop” approach. Although it may be disturbing to some viewers, this is real life. It’s been going on for years and will continue to go on because money is the name of the game. There is absolutely no way to keep 100% clean fish of all species if your primary goal is volume/profit.

If anybody knows of some fish stores that have “100% clean fish” in multiple different species- please name them below so I can buy my fish there. I’d love to quit having to quarantine and run medication. See...that’s the problem..there are none. Not one store. We do not know enough yet to keep every fish clean. Nor do we know how many strains there are of each different parasite or protozoan. Welcome to planet earth. There’s so many things that we will never know. We can not control everything.

To “merely try” to keep a wholesale location 100% free from every disease would be a very expensive operation that would cost thousands if not millions for tanks, equipment, medications, cleaning solutions, etc. I personally don’t think it’s possible. You’ll likely always have a little something to deal with. We can try to direct blame, but it only hurts the hobby and the people in it. Several years ago I frequently visited the fish disease forum on Reef Central. Snorvich (who I consider a fish disease expert) told me he had given up on keeping the blue-green Chromis, because Uronema was to hard to eradicate. He said this fish was not worth it to him, because he did not what that specific parasite in his tank. This was coming from a guy who’s credentials stretch longer than this paragraph. Shortly after that time... I remember seeing Humblefish there as well. We’ve all been fighting the good fight for a long time. We’ve come a long way since then and will continue to progress. This is just a reminder that fish will get sick or come in sick. They get sick in the ocean. The real problem starts when you take a fish that came from billions of gallons, and drop him into ten gallons. The numbers of parasites explode. That’s just how it goes. Let’s continue to put our heads together and learn so that we can educate others. The hobby will continue to evolve and get better. Fish will start to come in healthier and we’ll all have better options available. That’s why we have these forums. Look at how far we’ve come in the last 30 years.

 

[jt17]

Sorry. It was presented as though nothing was being done to treat these animals. Let’s hope they did something.

 

[Reefahholic]

There are plenty of experienced, long tenured reefers that don’t quarantine so I’d hardly judge that as necessarily bad advice.

Just because somebody is experienced or a long tenured reefer that doesn’t make it right. Throwing new fish in your reef tank w/o any isolation is taking a huge gamble. Plain and simple.

 

[Fastpitch]

Snorvich (who I consider a fish disease expert) told me he had given up on keeping the blue-green Chromis, because Uronema was to hard to eradicate. He said this fish was not worth it to him, because he did not what that specific parasite in his tank. This was coming from a guy who’s credentials stretch longer than this paragraph.

Depressing. So does this mean it is not even possible for me to cure the chromis I currently have in QT? I do NOT want anything in my DT.

 

[Reefahholic]

Sorry. It was presented as though nothing was being done to treat these animals. Let’s hope they did something.

I think in most cases everybody wants to do something and most LFS and Wholsalers try to treat the fish. It’s just very difficult to do. In the video, most of the stores had some form of treatment being implemented.

The problem is that we’re not just dealing with one disease here. It’s multiple parasites, protozoa, bacteria, etc. You run into gram-negative and gram-positive infections. There’s viral infections. Cross contamination is a huge issue. It’s hard to keep things clean when you have multiple tanks going at one time. Then you have the possibility of airborne transmission.

We should try our best not to be so harsh and do what we can to educate and keep learning so that we all can share information and change things for the better in the future. Otherwise we may not have people that want to start an LFS or be in Wholesale. Then there will be no fish or corals to buy.

 

[Mical]

You wouldn't believe some of the ridiculous things I've heard on these YouTube live streams lately. I have no clue where people get some of this stuff.

One guy the other night said...."Well, typically if a fish is gonna have problems...it's usually in the first couple of days." "After that...I just throw them in the tank."

"Another guy said...I run copper at half the dose...it helps the fish better."

SMH......

Like this guy...

 

[Reefahholic]

Depressing. So does this mean it is not even possible for me to cure the chromis I currently have in QT? I do NOT want anything in my DT.

No, I don’t think it means that. I just think it’s very difficult. Keep in mind that this was years ago. We’ve come a long way since then. We need to continue to study and learn more. We just need to keep testing different methods and sharing information and documentation is so key. Look at all the work Humblefish and others have done to write about these medications and link studies. IMO vlogs and pictures help out a lot. They give you visual data. All this stuff takes countless hours, but is necessary to advance the hobby in the right direction.

 

[Reefahholic]

Like this guy...

Well, Jake Adams wouldn’t be the best example to use. He’s very well known. This video is from 5 years ago. He’s also come a long way since that time. You gotta give him credit. We’ve all come a long way. There’s things that many of us did 10 years ago that we’re not proud of. I’ll be the first to admit that, but like I said...the hobby continues to evolve and we all keep leaning better ways to do things. ;Bookworm

 

[Fastpitch]

No, I don’t think it means that. I just think it’s very difficult. Keep in mind that this was years ago. We’ve come a long way since then. We need to continue to study and learn more. We just need to keep testing different methods and sharing information and documentation is so key. Look at all the work Humblefish and others have done to write about these medications and link studies. IMO vlogs and pictures help out a lot. They give you visual data. All this stuff takes countless hours, but is necessary to advance the hobby in the right direction.

Good to know. I am going to give it a try. Then check back in here before I give them their pass.