License to Sell Frags?

[Humblefish]

Man, I'm gonna have to reconsider ever moving to Fla. It sounds like y'all got the gestapo down there or something.

 

[LatinKing]

Great information.

 

[Dashhills]

I am presently the president of ORCA (Orlando Reef Caretakers Association) and yes most of what has been stated is true. After talking with the aquaculture people and with the people from Fish and Wildlife, we were all in agreement that the Florida Statutes were not written with the hobbyist in mind. Yes, they have gone after people getting out of the hobby and posting on Craigslist the breakdown of their 20 gallon system and have shown up to the house to write a fine.

We, ORCA, are presently working on rewriting the Florida Statutes, but trying to write them to please FWC, the local fish stores, and the clubs is difficult. Everybody understands that nobody expected the hobby to grow as big as it did and everybody realizes that the present law does not make sense. However, FWC does have to protect the natural flora and fauna of Florida; invasive species can be devastating (lion fish). They also need to protect the interest of business owners, but at the same time they realize that the hobbyists are being successful and actually need to frag their corals because of extensive growth. You can not kill it, you can not sell it, you can not trade it, you can not barter it, but you can give it away. Of course this changes if you purchase a retail license or go through the aquaculture department and secure an aquaculture license.

Hopefully this helps to clear up the situation. We have a vast coastline that does need to be protected.

 

[barbarag]

I live in F l and that sounds about right you need a license to do anything .

 

[yeah2311]

As far as taxes go, you generally do not need to worry about them. The laws are written that you can make a certain amount of profit without having to pay taxes. I believe that the value is set at $3500/year for the feds. So if you file a tax refund and you made less than $3500 you owe no taxes. So the example of the kid mowing lawns, technically yes he has to file for taxes but he would not owe anything because he is below that cutoff. There are limits in what profits you can make without owing taxes. Ebay and StubHub's policies state what the limits are and declare that if you make over whatever the cutoffs are that they say you are "required" to declare with the government, in case you wanted to look it up.

Now as far as the certification I have no idea on the limitations on this, but it is certainly interesting to here that these regulations are being set in stone.

 

[RafaelsReef]

Good to know. Good thing I'm in Cali

 

[Boboreef]

If you are selling to anyone in any state you need to pay taxes and to pay taxes you need a tax id or to open a company. In fl you also need an aquaculture licence so they get the opportunity to go to your house once or twice a year to make sure your setup is adequate and that you're not disposing of saltwater anywhere not approved. There's the link with some useful info

http://www.freshfromflorida.com/Div...ry/Aquafarm-Program/Aquaculture-Certification

So, where should I dump saltwater properly.. care to share?.. by law of course.. ty

 

[barbarag]

that is a good question about where to dump I would hate to get a fine for dumping in my septic tank

 

[CenlaReefer]

2 things you and many others may run into with the tax issue:
1. The government has an insatiable appetite for money and will tax whenever they can. No choice but to go along. Check your state and local tax codes so you do not have them down your neck.
2. Environmentalists are trying to close down all saltwater coral sales even if tank raised.
You never know which or both are behind these moves to tax and regulate. Once you have a tax license they know who you are when they decide to pull the trigger. Not a win win for the hobbyist.

Environmentalist often do not realize that home propagation of corals reduces the demand for corals being taken from the reefs.

 

[Isoprene]

Didnt read through all posts but Paul, yeah you need one, $100 per year, however what you sell is not taxable. I dont mind it considering the amount I sell however for guys selling under $100, be sure to "trade" with your fellow hobbyists to keep within the law.

 

[Homebrwr]

So this means you could write off your equipment / % of utilities and such as business expenses at tax time ?
Could get very complicated.

 

[Isoprene]

No, only aquacultured live organisms that you apply for licensing for and have a inspector come to evaluate if your operation follows local, state, federal laws concerning aquacultured organisms and sales. It only encompasses for example corals in my case.

 

[4FordFamily]

So I used to use domestic and other waterfowl in retention ponds as a kid for income (instead of harmful and expensive algae treatments) and I had to have a permit to own or handle any wildlife native to the state. In my case, I had wood ducks. I had to obtain a permit (easy) to do so and buy them. Their cousin from Asia the mandarin duck is even more ornamental but requires no permit to own. The rest of my birds were domestic breeds.

Anyway, since florida is home to reef critters and reef itself, they probably don't spend the time ID'ing which corals need permits and which don't so an overall permit is required.

 

[4FordFamily]

So this means you could write off your equipment / % of utilities and such as business expenses at tax time ?
Could get very complicated.

Tax shields are quite valuable, complicated as they (can) be.

To be more wealthy you can either make more money, or pay less taxes. Or both
Tax shields are often easier and yield higher ROI

 

[Harold Green]

The news a while back was about police closing a little girls lemonade stand because she didn't have a license. Is this what our nation has come down to? Every agency trying to make a buck off of everyone in their area by creating ridiculous laws and then claiming it's all about public health. Are they really worried about used salt water while the northern states are dumping millions of tons of salt on the roadways each winter? The average household probably dumps more salt from cooking than the average tank produces.

 

[tampasnooker]

There are several good reasons why Florida requires licenses. Issues regarding fairness in dealing with taxes, accounting and how materials are disposed and dealt with have been pretty well covered. You have to realize that we are dealing with restricted species. There are international laws governing the trade of corals. Locally, we also have to consider that just about anything we grow in our reefs can become invasive if it gets into Florida waters. Lionfish are just the tip of the iceburg. I think it was in Brazil last year that they discovered a couple acres of Xenia that someone had planted as an offshore nursery and it wiped out nearly coral in the area. Sure, we'd all love to dive the Keys and look at patches of Red Planet and rainbow Monti, but what if it overruns stag and elkhorn corals? There is much more to the picture than revenue agents "hiding in the ferns".

 

[Pirates.Reef]

But no one is planting stuff in the ocean were talking about people growing at home who will get in trouble for trying to sell to many frags because the stores are losing revenue. So I guess they found a way to kind of control it. I would like to know how the license stuff really works if maybe josh or someone else would care to explain. Do you have to open a company or can you just get the license.

 

[Pirates.Reef]

I mean who really plans on planting something in the ocean I find that ridiculous lol.

 

[booth2010]

Do you have to open a company or can you just get the license

Anyone can apply you dont have to run an actual company.

I mean who really plans on planting something in the ocean I find that ridiculous lol.

It doesnt have to be planted on purpose to grow out of control. I believe I read somewhere that even a 1/2" peice of chaeto if accidentally dropped into the ocean could grow, thrive, and take over in a matter of no time.

 

[4FordFamily]

For every sensible action of the government there are ten moronic unintended consequences and ten other actions that have zero upside.

Especially in the wake of lion fish invasion, I can see why efforts are taken but its implementation where the buck is missed every time.

The government cannot even operate a license branch or post office in the black (profitably) so it goes without saying that the bureaucracy and BS won't lead to much productive, either.

That's all I will say on this topic. Don't get me started!