Long time hard pipe plumber will never do it again.

I did consider using the sweeping sch80 90 degree elbows in the electrical section of the big box stores

No don't use those for plumbing! They are available online, not sure if I am allowed to post a link to the site I usually get them from or give a generic "search for xyz-abc"

You can paint the outside of PCV pipes pretty easy also it the look matters. I did it with a spray can on something for the kids pool and it has held up in the weather for a few years so far. Just wanted the white pipes to blend in with the tan shed better
 
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We are talking about "FlexPVC", so I suppose if you threw a .com on the end of that it might allegedly get you somewhere.
 
Thanks! Makes sense.... Those elbows really do kill the flow. I will keep this in mind for my next build.
 
I AM A PIPEFITTER BY TRADE AND I'M HERE TO TELL YOU WITH 15 YEARS OF FIELD EXPERIENCE, YOU DONT NEED SCH 80 PVC IN ANY OUR OUR HOME SYSTEMS!

Yes, I have only ever seen it needed in industrial systems. It was probably overkill for them also, but they need to be super duper idiot proof. Just in case somebody rammed a forklift into it...
 
Oh, and the measurements aren't the O.D. of the pipe either usually. I'm not sure who came up with the system for measuring pipe but they must have been drunk at the time.

The Outside Diameter is standardized across all types of pipe, except for refrigeration, so tha
 
Oh, and the measurements aren't the O.D. of the pipe either usually. I'm not sure who came up with the system for measuring pipe but they must have been drunk at the time.

The Outside Diameter is standardized across all types of pipe, except for refrigeration, so that a 1" fitting will work with 1" pipe etc. The Inside Diameter is smaller on heavy duty pipe for this reason.

My signal really sucks here
 
The Outside Diameter is standardized across all types of pipe, except for refrigeration, so that a 1" fitting will work with 1" pipe etc. The Inside Diameter is smaller on heavy duty pipe for this reason.

My signal really sucks here

Different types of pipe can have different O.D. For example, 1" PVC is 1.315" and 1" PEX is 1.125"

We use threaded SCH 120 pipe for hanging submersible pumps in wells. The reason isn't because of the pressure. It is because it is thick enough to be threaded and stiff enough that it doesn't whip around when the pump kicks on and eat up the wire that runs down beside it. We have to repair many that people use cheaper, flexible pipe and constant whipping will wear the wires in two.
 
Wow great post, as soon as i get back in the country, i am going to play with this. I have 2 Cor 15s on my system with 2 flow monitors. I can take one out. They are not exactly the same one side is longer than the other. But i am not really sure how i could tell if i was getting better flow, Any ideas?
 

That sweep 90 isn’t very long. It looks like two 45s which BRS debunked as being the same in restrictiveness as a 90. The sweep 90s in the electrical isle are about a foot long as wire doesn’t like sharp bends either. Larger pipe sizes are even longer sweeps. I wonder if the larger turn radius is less restrictive or overall the same?
 
Wow - a lot to go over here.

I agree, the nominal dimensions of pipe and tubing make no sense. As as been stated, for PVC pipe, the outside diameters are standardized schedule 40 and 80 fittings and pipe can be used with each other. This means that schedule 80 pipe has a smaller inside diameter for a given size, and therefore more resistance (see below.)

Also, as multiple people have stated, schedule 80 is completly unnecessary for our applications. I was recently at a water park in Wisconsin Dells - the water slides had PVC pipe pumping thousands of gallons per hour up 4+ stories, and it was schedule 40 pipe. If you need the pressure rating or ‘beefiness’ of schedule 80, you are doing something wrong. In general, schedule 80 is just a good way to spend more money for less flow. Note that this doesn’t necessarily apply to fittings/valves. I know many people who get schedule 80 valves because of the higher quality.

Regarding resistance and flow, there are many factors that go into the resistance of your plumbing. The single most important is the pipe diameter. The mathematics can get pretty complicated, but for simple calculations, the resistance to flow is inversely proportional to the forth power of the radius (1/r^4) This means that all things being equal, the resistance of a length of 1” pipe is 8 times that of a 2” pipe. If you use the actual ID of schedule 40 pipe, moving from 1” to ¾” pipe increases the resistance by about 2.7 times.

Fittings are generally the second largest source of resistance to flow. Reducing fittings will abosultely increase flow, so smart plumbing design that reduces fittings pays off. From what I can tell, two 45º fittings are about equal to one 90º in terms of resistance, so you don’t necessarily gain by 45’s to replace a 90. (As a side note, total resistance is additive, so it can pay off to use larger pipe, even if you are limited to a 3/4” bulkhead at the tank.)

Vinyl can reduce resistance to flow if it reduced the number of fittings. The two drawbacks to vinyl tubing are the barbed fittings which can be quite restrictive and the fact that it allows algae to grow on the inside which can signficantly affect flow over time. Another potential drawback to vinyl tubing is the fact that barbed fittings are more likely to fail than a glued PVC fitting. metal pipe camps the most secure, but are not very practical in saltwater applications.

For reference, I looked up the inside diameters fo PVC pipe. You can do the relevant calculations yourself, but for ¾” pipe, schedule 80 gives you 50% more resistance to flow.
Schedule 40
¾” 0.804”
1” 1.209”
1¼” 1.36”

Schedule 80
¾” 0.722”
1” 0.936”
1¼” 1.255”
 
Wow - a lot to go over here.

I agree, the nominal dimensions of pipe and tubing make no sense. As as been stated, for PVC pipe, the outside diameters are standardized schedule 40 and 80 fittings and pipe can be used with each other. This means that schedule 80 pipe has a smaller inside diameter for a given size, and therefore more resistance (see below.)

Also, as multiple people have stated, schedule 80 is completly unnecessary for our applications. I was recently at a water park in Wisconsin Dells - the water slides had PVC pipe pumping thousands of gallons per hour up 4+ stories, and it was schedule 40 pipe. If you need the pressure rating or ‘beefiness’ of schedule 80, you are doing something wrong. In general, schedule 80 is just a good way to spend more money for less flow. Note that this doesn’t necessarily apply to fittings/valves. I know many people who get schedule 80 valves because of the higher quality.

Regarding resistance and flow, there are many factors that go into the resistance of your plumbing. The single most important is the pipe diameter. The mathematics can get pretty complicated, but for simple calculations, the resistance to flow is inversely proportional to the forth power of the radius (1/r^4) This means that all things being equal, the resistance of a length of 1” pipe is 8 times that of a 2” pipe. If you use the actual ID of schedule 40 pipe, moving from 1” to ¾” pipe increases the resistance by about 2.7 times.

Fittings are generally the second largest source of resistance to flow. Reducing fittings will abosultely increase flow, so smart plumbing design that reduces fittings pays off. From what I can tell, two 45º fittings are about equal to one 90º in terms of resistance, so you don’t necessarily gain by 45’s to replace a 90. (As a side note, total resistance is additive, so it can pay off to use larger pipe, even if you are limited to a 3/4” bulkhead at the tank.)

Vinyl can reduce resistance to flow if it reduced the number of fittings. The two drawbacks to vinyl tubing are the barbed fittings which can be quite restrictive and the fact that it allows algae to grow on the inside which can signficantly affect flow over time. Another potential drawback to vinyl tubing is the fact that barbed fittings are more likely to fail than a glued PVC fitting. metal pipe camps the most secure, but are not very practical in saltwater applications.

For reference, I looked up the inside diameters fo PVC pipe. You can do the relevant calculations yourself, but for ¾” pipe, schedule 80 gives you 50% more resistance to flow.
Schedule 40
¾” 0.804”
1” 1.209”
1¼” 1.36”

Schedule 80
¾” 0.722”
1” 0.936”
1¼” 1.255”

Great post. I agree 100%.
 
A couple more additions:
I plugged in a Kill-a-watt to the Fluval SP4 that I have in my mixing tank. It's a 'traditional' AC pump with an Askoll motor block. I compared the measured power usage with the plumbing closed and open. Then I checked with an Octo Varios6 pump completely open and with a length of 1" silicone tubing with a valve on the end. (I did these with what I happened to have laying around, so they're not exactly equal comparisons.)

Fluval SP4
42W with plumbing fully closed off (infinite head pressure)
66w with spigot open (4-5' of 1" plumbing, two 90º ells and a spigot)

Octo Varios 6
70W with no plumbing connected at all
73W with plumbing fully closed off

As you can see, the power consumption of the Varios doesn't vary much with head pressure where as the Fluval actually drops a bit. What really matters, though is gallons per hour per watt. I'd be interested to see a comparison of the efficiency of various pumps at various head pressures.

One other note - you can buy flexible PVC. Either spa flex or the more flexible Ultraflex that lets you route plumbing a bit easier without as many fittings. These use regular PVC fittings so you get the best of both worlds - flexible tubing and the more secure PVC fittings with lower resistance.
 
Using 3/4" will restrict your flow quite a bit on these low pressure systems. If you used 3/4" Sch 80 pipe that restricts it even more since it has the same outside diameter but a smaller inside diameter. I'm sure if you used appropriately sized pipe and avoided unnecessary elbows you would have had the same results.

Also, if you have less restriction now and your pump is pumping more water it should be using more power. If you have a valve on the output start closing it down and watch the amperage. It should decrease as the valve is closed.
IMO You have that backwards. SCH 40 and SCH 80 inside diameter is the same. it is the OD that is different.
 
When I was setting up my tank I mentioned using schedule 80 to my friend who has been a plumber for the last 20+ years and he looked at me like I was crazy! He said even on commercial buildings, unless it's exposed and prone to being hit, he uses schedule 40. He showed me the prices for the fittings, even at his cost, and that quickly changed my mind!
 
IMO You have that backwards. SCH 40 and SCH 80 inside diameter is the same. it is the OD that is different.

No. The OD is the same for both - that lets you interchange pipe and fittings (schedule 40 pipe with schedule 80 fittings, etc.) Schedule 80 has a thicker wall to withstand greater pressure so the net internal diameter is smaller. See this website for acutual dimensions.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pvc-cpvc-pipes-dimensions-d_795.html

If you still don't believe me, grab a couple of PVC pipes next time you're at Home Depot and compere them.
 
A couple more additions:
I plugged in a Kill-a-watt to the Fluval SP4 that I have in my mixing tank. It's a 'traditional' AC pump with an Askoll motor block. I compared the measured power usage with the plumbing closed and open. Then I checked with an Octo Varios6 pump completely open and with a length of 1" silicone tubing with a valve on the end. (I did these with what I happened to have laying around, so they're not exactly equal comparisons.)

Fluval SP4
42W with plumbing fully closed off (infinite head pressure)
66w with spigot open (4-5' of 1" plumbing, two 90º ells and a spigot)

Octo Varios 6
70W with no plumbing connected at all
73W with plumbing fully closed off

As you can see, the power consumption of the Varios doesn't vary much with head pressure where as the Fluval actually drops a bit. What really matters, though is gallons per hour per watt. I'd be interested to see a comparison of the efficiency of various pumps at various head pressures.

One other note - you can buy flexible PVC. Either spa flex or the more flexible Ultraflex that lets you route plumbing a bit easier without as many fittings. These use regular PVC fittings so you get the best of both worlds - flexible tubing and the more secure PVC fittings with lower resistance.
I've done some similar testing and you're absolutely right that AC pumps are advantageously affected buy backpressure in terms of power consumption. Even iwaki/panworld style magnet drive pumps with unity power factor see this effect to a slightly lesser extent than reluctance motor wet rotor pumps like the askoll. DC pumps pretty much just use max power at max settings on the controller and see little effect one way or another from back pressure depending on the model. In terms of flow per/watt in low pressure applications I'd give the edge to the askoll motor block units at least based on my testing. DC pumps of course have the power factor advantage, especially in lower flow/head applications.

To the OP... it was the flow meter... not the flex pipe that realized such a dramatic power reduction for the same flow. Yes flex will decrease dynamic head pressure to a point, but not nearly as dramatically as you experienced. Either way congrats on the efficiency upgrade!
 
Wow there is so much fantastic info in this thread, thanks everyone.

I was just using sch80 fittings to pair with sch40 orange PVC to create an Apex color scheme. We're talking a few elbows and gate valve not entire runs of pipe. If I was able to find sch40 fittings in grey I would have done that. :). I'm not a fan of the all orange piping.

I hear ya on the pressure side, for the pressure we see I think sch40 is WAY overkill, but it is sexy and it prevents algae growth. I can't imagine any of the pumps we use being strong enough to pop hose off a properly sized barb fitting. I use hose on a PVC hook for water changes and its' a PIA to remove the hose from time to time from the barb and there's no clamp or zip tie on it at all.

Still surprised that the flow valve was that restrictive. I guess I won't be plumbing that back in after all. I've used spa-flex for a decade or so but never tried the Ultra Spa-Flex. I find that for short runs Spa Flex makes me paranoid of leaks. For me it's always hard to get it to loose it coiled shape. I've tried leaving it in the sun in the Summer or placing it in a hot-ish bath to soften it up but it still seems to want to revert to that bend. If its just for a short run I often fear that it could create a leak in a fitting. Using Spa-Flex always brings up the "do you prime or not prime" argument. I've always not primed the Spa-Flex side but primed just the PVC fitting side. I usually would let the primer sit on the fitting side a few minutes then applied medium body cement to the spa-flex and proceed as usual. For flexibility its hard to match the braided vinyl but being able to not use barb fittings is certainly a plus. I might have to order some of the ultra-flex and try that out.
 

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