Looking for a Mentor for sps dominant system

[VR28man]

How about studies with acros?

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03946975.2015.1119006?scroll=top&needAccess=true

Abstract is nice. What did they say is the optimal rate for feeding acros?

 

[hart24601]

Abstract is nice. What did they say is the optimal rate for feeding acros?

Well if it was handed to us wouldn't that be terrible boring!


Well there is a lot of information out there just takes some searching.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0044848617317003

 

[Smarkow]

Good for you. Consider finding someone whose style matches your own - Ie detail oriented, stability oriented with a lasse faire attitude, intense vs relaxed, scrubber vs fuge vs oversized skimmer...

Personally reef2reef communication and threads are so good these days that I have better relationships online than local. Though local can save you money by accessing cheaper frags and 2nd hand equipment.

Good luck, it’s a great hobby and a great forum!!!

 

[JustAnt]

Hello everybody, as the title states I am looking for a Mentor.

I am looking for someone who has been keeping sps tanks for 10+ years who likes helping people and seeing them succeed.

I am new to salt and my tank is 6 months old. I have had some issues and lost some coral and would like that to stop. Today I watched BRS Randy's video on 10 year tanks and I'm taking his advice leading to this post.

The picture attached is my tank.

If you are interested please reply and, or send me a direct message.

Thanks in advance and happy reefing.

I hope you find a mentor! IMO, i don’t think it HAS to be someone local. I imagine it would be very hard to find someone local. I know where I live we have no LFS and reefers are very few let alone any with a 10+ yo tank. Explore if your area has a reef club. Maybe you might find someone local. If not, keep trying online forums and I’m sure some kind soul will agree to mentor you. Best of luck!

 

[cmcoker]

@jda have you had the pincushion urchins eat bubble algae? I have been manually removing it but would like to add something to keep it in check. I currently have a tuxedo urchin and wouldnt mind adding another urchin or two if they would help.

 

[Boku]

Let's start with your basic parameters, how and if you've calibrated your refractometer and some details on how corals other than SPS have done. Also, any description of how the corals died would be helpful. Also, do you know why you lost the SPS both times?

Nothing wacky so far from what you've described, though I am curious what nitrate has been testing at and why you're running a denitrator.

I make my own water. I have a 6 stage with all new spectrapure filters. The in line tds meter reads 0 and mu cheap tds pen reads 0 as well.

My primary refractomotor is the digital Milwaukee Seawater green one. I use the calibration fluid that came with it. It always reads the reference fluid correctly at 1.025I make my own water. I have a 6 stage with all new spectrapure filters. The in line tds meter reads 0 and mu cheap tds pen reads 0 as well.

My primary refractomitor is the digital Milwaukee Seawater green one. I use the calibration fluid that came with it. It always reads the reference fluid correctly at 1.025

Current parameters (15% water change 2 days ago)

Salinity - 1.026
Temperature - 78
Nitrate - 8 (Somewhere between 5&10 on red sea test)
Phosphate - 0.02
Alkalinity - 8.6
Calcium - 480
Magnesium - 1500

It has been a few weeks since I have run the Calcium and Magnesium tests. Looks like they are a bit high. I just used the last of the Aquaforest salt I have and am going to pick up some Tropic Marin reef-pro this week.

The tank was using .6 alk/day and I started dosing Aquaforest. Alkalinity consumption has stopped and dosing has been removed 2 weeks ago.

Sps seems fine for 2 - 3 weeks then starts to STN. I have had 2 "Major Events".

Event 1 I had a fuge with cheato going strong and then all the sudden it melted. This caused nitrate and phosphate to go up significantly. I then got some kind of algea that covered the entire back glass. During this nitrate never got above 50 and phosphate never got above 0.3. But I lost all of my hard coral.

Event 2
Power loss for 7 hours. Followed by stn of all hard coral. This made me decide to get eotech s2 so i could put it on a battery.

Even between these events sps seems to be good for several days and then stn.

 

[reacclimating 2 the hobby]

I hope you find a mentor! IMO, i don’t think it HAS to be someone local. I imagine it would be very hard to find someone local. I know where I live we have no LFS and reefers are very few let alone any with a 10+ yo tank. Explore if your area has a reef club. Maybe you might find someone local. If not, keep trying online forums and I’m sure some kind soul will agree to mentor you. Best of luck!

I know the feeling... nobody around here.

Seems like there has been some solid advice here. Don't skimp on lighting (Mh/T5 combo for life for me). Solid parameters, whatever they may end up at(within reason), but consistent. Good flow and natural filtration, not a fan of chemicals. Have a large fuge and an over sized skimmer. My fish population is low right now, but will increase as needed. They are well fed! Making a salt change as well from RS Coral Pro to Tropic Marine Pro buffered with soda ash. ( I like a higher alk). Aquaforest may have been your issue, I believe it's based off running a ULNS. While possible, I prefer slightly elevated nutrients for my corals.

I keep seeing all of these sps tanks with sand and regret not doing it. My first bare bottom and while I love the flow i'm running with my two gyres, I do miss the look of sand. My new tank has been up about 7 months, my sps are thriving and I don't have a ton of coraline growth. I moved half my rock from a tank that had been running for three months and the other half was dry.

These forums are a great mentor and finding someone else that you can reach out to personally is even better. In most cases the forums will give you different perspectives in which you would need to choose which to follow. Picking one person and following their lead is a much better decision. Good luck! Look forward to seeing and following your success.

@jda need more tank pics, you're always here with sound advice and insight... i'm curious

 

[JustAnt]

@jda have you had the pincushion urchins eat bubble algae? I have been manually removing it but would like to add something to keep it in check. I currently have a tuxedo urchin and wouldnt mind adding another urchin or two if they would help.

Emerald green crabs eat bubble algae not sure if they r totally reef safe though

 

[cmcoker]

Emerald green crabs eat bubble algae not sure if they r totally reef safe though

Yeah thanks, I have a couple but am hesitant to put an army in as I've had them pick on corals.

 

[Ike]

I make my own water. I have a 6 stage with all new spectrapure filters. The in line tds meter reads 0 and mu cheap tds pen reads 0 as well.

My primary refractomotor is the digital Milwaukee Seawater green one. I use the calibration fluid that came with it. It always reads the reference fluid correctly at 1.025I make my own water. I have a 6 stage with all new spectrapure filters. The in line tds meter reads 0 and mu cheap tds pen reads 0 as well.

My primary refractomitor is the digital Milwaukee Seawater green one. I use the calibration fluid that came with it. It always reads the reference fluid correctly at 1.025

Current parameters (15% water change 2 days ago)

Salinity - 1.026
Temperature - 78
Nitrate - 8 (Somewhere between 5&10 on red sea test)
Phosphate - 0.02
Alkalinity - 8.6
Calcium - 480
Magnesium - 1500

It has been a few weeks since I have run the Calcium and Magnesium tests. Looks like they are a bit high. I just used the last of the Aquaforest salt I have and am going to pick up some Tropic Marin reef-pro this week.

The tank was using .6 alk/day and I started dosing Aquaforest. Alkalinity consumption has stopped and dosing has been removed 2 weeks ago.

Sps seems fine for 2 - 3 weeks then starts to STN. I have had 2 "Major Events".

Event 1 I had a fuge with cheato going strong and then all the sudden it melted. This caused nitrate and phosphate to go up significantly. I then got some kind of algea that covered the entire back glass. During this nitrate never got above 50 and phosphate never got above 0.3. But I lost all of my hard coral.

Event 2
Power loss for 7 hours. Followed by stn of all hard coral. This made me decide to get eotech s2 so i could put it on a battery.

Even between these events sps seems to be good for several days and then stn.

It's really tough to find anything that you're doing wrong... However, that PO4 is pretty low. No carbon dosing of any type recently? No GFO?

Get something to verify your temp just in case. I've had temp read as much as 6* off with digital thermometers. Other than that I think there could be some unknown contaminant you're contending with. I think a move to tropic marin pro or IO would be a good move, as would a couple large water changes. Mix is well for a day or two, throw a heater in there, and do a couple 30-50% water changes in consecutive weeks. Then get a guinea pig coral or two.

Don't worry about the calcium and magnesium levels. Also, once you get the MH on let the tank temps naturally drift upward during the day.

What's your dipping method like?

 

[Boku]

It's really tough to find anything that you're doing wrong... However, that PO4 is pretty low. No carbon dosing of any type recently? No GFO?

Get something to verify your temp just in case. I've had temp read as much as 6* off with digital thermometers. Other than that I think there could be some unknown contaminant you're contending with. I think a move to tropic marin pro or IO would be a good move, as would a couple large water changes. Mix is well for a day or two, throw a heater in there, and do a couple 30-50% water changes in consecutive weeks. Then get a guinea pig coral or two.

Don't worry about the calcium and magnesium levels. Also, once you get the MH on let the tank temps naturally drift upward during the day.

What's your dipping method like?

I was dosing what I understand to be carbon via AF PRO BIO S and -NP PRO. I started doing this when I was getting rapid rise in Nitrate and Phosphate during the indecent with the cheato. I stopped this nearly 4 weeks ago. No GFO. I have been primarily feeding NLS Probiotix. From what I understand from talking to one of their reps, is that it will help control PO4.

I have a calibrated thermometer that I purchased from amazon and took the reading from that. My GLH controller has also been calibrated to that thermometer. Speaking of temperature, I do get a 2 degree increase throughout the day.

I am not installing MH, I believe somebody else was talking about them

Dipping, I have Bayre, Coral RX, and Revive. I ALWAYS use Coral RX. If I see anything questionable It also gets Bayre also. Revive, I use in addition when I think the coral might need some help.

I have a few SPS frags that I got cheap. One is starting to show some white around the base. The other 2 are looking fine for the most part.

 

[jda]

The N and P bouncing up and down is hard on acopora. Having it NSW low is not an issue, but the up/down can be.

I would not dose anything with organic carbon in it... so if the NLS Probiotix has it, then reconsider. Get the chaeto going again. If it melted, then you might have run out of iron - salt mix has iron, so you have to change water at a significant clip if you want to grow chaeto. You can dose iron as well, but it is still better to change a good amount of water on a frequent basis and not wait too long or the iron can get depleted.

For me, the urchins eat all kinds of soft algae... anything that they can get to. ...bubbles too, but I also order green emeralds when I order the urchins. They are great reef algae eaters and scavengers.

 

[jda]

I forgot, sorry... you gotta stop the black-box supplements or treatments. You will not find too many folks who have been doing this a long time that will use something from a bottle when they do not know 100% what is in it. Just resist this urge at all costs.

 

[Sallstrom]

Sorry man, but I'm going to pick this apart a bit. It's coming with a friendly and helpful tone and hopefully some others will get some use from my response, so please take it that way...

Many public institutions are still behind the hobby in their practices. It's not as bad as it used to be, but the Shedd is still among them. I used to volunteer there, and I also used to go to the wholesalers they received weekly shipments from. They couldn't keep their fish alive, let alone maintain a healthy reef tank... Just because you studied marine/fish/coral biology does not make you a good aquarist. So, my advice, other than picking some people to trust on the forums, do try to find a local and successful long-term reefer.

1.) I think you're mostly right here. However, trying to manipulate phosphates and nitrates through dosing or media is one of the biggest mistakes a newer reefer can make. Let the nitrates settle where they do. If they're building up you need a bigger protein skimmer, if they're not and you're under 25 ppm just go with it. If you're at 0 watch your corals color. I they're pale or throw out a lot of mesenterial filaments at feeding time (I consider this a stress response most of the time) then consider adding more fish and feeding more. If colors look vibrant, stay the course, but also realize that with happy corals comes growth, with growth comes a need for more nutrients, so adding fish load slowly as a tank matures can be beneficial. Also, keeping your fish fed better and feeding high protein foods frequently and ramping up feedings can help as well.

2.) Agreed, and these algae cycles are something that too many people are quickly reactive to rather than letting algae run the course to some degree. I've always been a strong believer in lots of feeding and lots of herbivores. I stick to tangs, rabbitfish, mexican turbos (I have one that's 12 years old), red leg hermits, tiger trochus, the ceriths with the same shell as the red leg hermits sometimes. I don't see much use for other herbivores

3.) Agreed! Driving nutrients too low is a very real problem in the hobby today. Too many carbon dosing regimens and protein skimmers are really good now. Driving something too low with GFO, carbon dosing or nitrogen or phosphorous dosing will destroy a lot of hard work very quickly!

4.) Other than the big three elements there is absolutely no dosing required to have a stunning SPS tank. I find ICP testing to be kinda fun, but mostly worthless and even misguided if it leads to the company that's testing your water selling you some overpriced trace elements.

5.) Don't skimp on lighting, if you go T5 get an ATI, if you go halides run top notch bulbs like a Radium with great reflectors, if you get LEDs get a quality brand or one of the white label type brands that is proven. You can have a very good tank with cheap lighting, it's tough to have a great SPS tank with lesser lighting. That looks like a 75 gallon, and I think it's a great size for a 6 bulb ATI T5, but you can have great success any numbers of ways.

6.) Newly hatched brine shrimp is likely too large for most species of Acropora. I grind up flake food with my fingers under water so that it creates a haze. It feeds some of my corals and numbers of other things, but I think generally having a good fish load and feeding them well (lots of good flake food!) is a big help. I stopped adding specific coral food years ago, but if I were to start again I'd probably use the 1-50 micron golden pearls again. There are very few commercial foods actually suitable size wise for what we believe Acrpora is best suited to ingest.

So I'm both qualified and disqualified.. (kept reef tanks +10 years at a public aquarium)
I won't give my thoughts, too much advices will just confuse things.

Unfortunately many public aquariums do not put in enough effort in their reef tanks what I've seen. So I agree on that the hobby reef aquarists are often ahead. The best reef tanks I've seen are hobbyists ones. And my goal when I started working at my current job was to create reef tanks that would impress hobbyists. After 12 years I hope they've impressed some at least

Oh, and I saw ICP tests were mentioned in another post. We've been working together with Triton lab, testing and trying out their products for the last six years. So if ICP tests and how we use them is interesting, I would be glad to share.

Sorry for some off topic @Boku . Good luck with your tank!

 

[biecacka]

I agree with most posts in this thread. I really agree with the idea of finding someone you mesh with well who is successful that is local. That is what I did awhile back and picked their brains. I am lucky to have a few people local to me who are great at growing SPS. One in particular can grow anything but he is extremely detailed oriented. White board in fish room and tests daily and writes it down to see trends. Has done this for as long as I’ve known him, 6-8 years. Another grows massive colonies and was TOTM before and is more laid back about it. Yet another is growing all sorts of pieces and has super rare pieces and his tactics are sort o fin between the others two styles. I think if you can, you should try to find someone you vibe with. It’ll be easier to ask questions etc. however a local person in general would be ideal if for no other reason you have face time access to them more often.
As many have said here, consistency is key. Nothing good happens overnight! I was cruising along and then my n03 and p04 bottomed out and some of my corals started browning or getting pale(mostly new pieces to my system) but I just upped some feeding and followed to see if they raised in their own. They did and while the corals don’t necessarily look better yet, I know they will soon enough.
Patience is vital

Corey

 

[Boku]

I feel like I got "burned" with the Cheato, should I get it going again? What lighting for it? I feel like everybody recommends something different.

 

[biecacka]

I never had luck with it but I know many do. My friend has tried many lights then ended up with the kessil grow light and that thing grows cheato like crazy.
I use an algae turf scrubber on my tank

Corey

 

[jda]

How big of an area do you have for cheato? If small, like a section in the sump, then a CFL in a clip-on reflector from the hardware store is great - get a "daylight" bulb in the 5500k range. If larger (a small tank like a 20 long, or something), then get a cheap Chinese 2 or 4 bulb T5 unit and get some 6500k bulbs for it.

You can get an algae growing light if you want, but at the end of the day, you won't remove any more N and P from your system. The BRS chaeto video recommended the high dollar light based on weight of the chaeto, but both it and the cheap CFL both removed 100% of the N and P that they added, so the added weight was likely water... but they do sell the light.

Chaeto will grow better with reasonable levels of N and P, but also with adequate trace elements. If you are not a water changer, then it can suffer. If you jack around with chemicals, miracle cures, organic carbon or media, then the chaeto can suffer. It can really grow fast and bind a lot of N and P if you just let it do it's thing.

Once it gets going, pull it apart and trash half of it every few weeks and it will continue to grow at a good rate. If you let it get all tight and dense, then it can die back and release the stuff back into the water as it dies.

I have a 24x24x12 fuge (old frag tank) on my 240 SPS tank. It has just 4 24w T5s in 6500k bulbs (cheap hardware store daylight bulbs) and I can remove about 3/4 of a 5 gallon bucket every few weeks.

 

[Boku]

It is just the one chamber in the sump. Aprox 10 x 14

 

[Ike]

I was dosing what I understand to be carbon via AF PRO BIO S and -NP PRO. I started doing this when I was getting rapid rise in Nitrate and Phosphate during the indecent with the cheato. I stopped this nearly 4 weeks ago. No GFO. I have been primarily feeding NLS Probiotix. From what I understand from talking to one of their reps, is that it will help control PO4.

I have a calibrated thermometer that I purchased from amazon and took the reading from that. My GLH controller has also been calibrated to that thermometer. Speaking of temperature, I do get a 2 degree increase throughout the day.

I am not installing MH, I believe somebody else was talking about them

Dipping, I have Bayre, Coral RX, and Revive. I ALWAYS use Coral RX. If I see anything questionable It also gets Bayre also. Revive, I use in addition when I think the coral might need some help.

I have a few SPS frags that I got cheap. One is starting to show some white around the base. The other 2 are looking fine for the most part.

I really think you're playing in dangerous territory with your PO4 being that low. I don't know what the NLS food has in it that would "control" phosphate, but if they won't tell you what it is and how it works I would ditch that food for some good old ocean nutrition flakes. A good quality food will add PO4 to a tank, there's no way around it. High protein (required for fish) = higher protein.

Anyways, phosphorous and nitrogen are VERY important for life in general, if you make the availability of either too limited corals will die or be stressed. It doesn't seem to have to be ongoing either, driving it too low for even short periods of times seems to have very negative reactions. I've learned the hard way a few times, several years ago I played around a lot with dosing ammonium, nitrate, and carbon dosing. All had positive effects in the shorter term, but all turned negative in the long run. The bacteria will out compete the coral for nutrients/phosphorous and the coral will suffer. Interestingly enough, it's also the only time I've been able to kill Chaetomorpha.

I wouldn't mess with chaeto, or any other new form of nutrient export, until you can get the PO4 up a bit. Personally, I would also ditch the denitrator, it has the potential to cause issues down the road if your nitrate comes down to ND levels.

Great on the temp, and one more thing that can be eliminated from consideration.

Sorry about the MH confusion, while not my choice, your lighting isn't the reason your corals aren't doing well.

FYI, I find revive and coral RX to be very similar, and both are harder on corals than Bayer IME. It's not a big deal, but I switched to dipping in Bayer primarily a while back for this reason. I can't say I like the exposure I get to this stuff, but it works well as a coral dip!