MAJOR emergency Pinktail Trigger
- Thread starter RyanFish
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I looked in his mouth while he was alive and didn’t see anything.
Currently, I want to dissect him. I was a biology major in college. But I don’t want to post pictures that look like I hacked away at the fish or that are not allowed on this forum.
Im leaning toward opening up the side with the bubble.
Currently, I want to dissect him. I was a biology major in college. But I don’t want to post pictures that look like I hacked away at the fish or that are not allowed on this forum.
Im leaning toward opening up the side with the bubble.
Karen00
2500 Club Member
So sorry for your loss! This is not the news we all hoped to read.Everyone following this was hoping for a speedy recovery. I think it would benefit the community if you can find out what happened even if you just post an update without pics.
Thank you all for your kind words.
I dissected him and know how he died and also possibly why he was breathing hard.
After repeatedly examining him in and out of the water while he was alive, I noticed that he had no damage to his outer body. His dark green rough skin made of cartilage makes it very tough to see any damage even under bright lights. My father and brother even closely looked at the fish and could find no damage anywhere. Triggerfish skin is extremely tough and in all my years of fish keeping, I’ve never seen anything break through their skin. They are beefy tanks. A knife barely makes it through their skin. Even when triggers fight I’ve never seen them puncture one another.
BUT it seems he was damaged and something had punctured through his skin, probably weeks or maybe months ago. What caused this puncture? No clue. Maybe he ran into a sharp coral. Maybe a tang smacked his chin. Maybe another trigger bit him.
Below his lower lip there is a very small gash. Easily less than a 1 mm. Undetectable to the eye. I found it only under very high light and because I squeezed the bubble a bit and pus mixed with blood came out of this very tiny hole under his lip which was very surprising. I decided to start cutting from this hole.
I removed his skin and he had a major infection under that bubble. White and yellow pus and blood. Just a complete disaster. The white/yellow pus starts from the this micro cut under his chin and slowly works its way through his right side and toward his gill. It just spread from this one tiny hole like tentacles. His other side which I also removed the skin is perfect, clean, no blood, no puss and looks like a normal healthy fish. The infection never got in his throat and his throat has no damage or anything stuck in it. The rest of his body is also clean and gash free. His other organs are unaffected from what I can see.
His body had managed to contain this infection in this pocket away from his throat and gills and away from his other side. And clearly he was fighting it while becoming weaker and weaker. I suppose eventually the infection reached his gills thereby causing him to breathe rapidly, he mounted his last huge immune response to this area which resulted in the rapid swelling, and by then it was too late. His entire front right side was full of infection and pus and blood. A happy fat 6-7inch large triggerfish quickly faded away from a undetectable tiny gash resulting in a hidden killer infection.
Where did this infection come from? No clue. Maybe it was in his body and he just needed to be stressed by the cut. Maybe it’s a harmless bacteria or virus until it enters through a gash. Maybe it was cancer. Or cancerous cells due to the small damage.
Could I have saved this fish? No way. Even if I had found the gash. Could I have noticed him being sick sooner? Unfortunately no again. He just acted like himself. Eating and swimming and being a happy fish. His healthy chubby weight probably hid the infection from me because he was perfectly symmetrical. Also his dark color, rapid swimming, and tough skin made it impossible to see such a small cut in a 250 gallon tank.
I have taken some pictures of both his sides after I “dissected” him. I am no expert in dissection and have never done it before on a fish. I am hesitant to post the pictures because some people may not want to see them and others may complain that I’m a butcher and carelessly hacked away at a dead fish. I did this to learn why he died and to share it with others. I did not enjoy cutting open my own fish at midnight.
I do want to post the pictures but I’ll leave it up to you all.
I dissected him and know how he died and also possibly why he was breathing hard.
After repeatedly examining him in and out of the water while he was alive, I noticed that he had no damage to his outer body. His dark green rough skin made of cartilage makes it very tough to see any damage even under bright lights. My father and brother even closely looked at the fish and could find no damage anywhere. Triggerfish skin is extremely tough and in all my years of fish keeping, I’ve never seen anything break through their skin. They are beefy tanks. A knife barely makes it through their skin. Even when triggers fight I’ve never seen them puncture one another.
BUT it seems he was damaged and something had punctured through his skin, probably weeks or maybe months ago. What caused this puncture? No clue. Maybe he ran into a sharp coral. Maybe a tang smacked his chin. Maybe another trigger bit him.
Below his lower lip there is a very small gash. Easily less than a 1 mm. Undetectable to the eye. I found it only under very high light and because I squeezed the bubble a bit and pus mixed with blood came out of this very tiny hole under his lip which was very surprising. I decided to start cutting from this hole.
I removed his skin and he had a major infection under that bubble. White and yellow pus and blood. Just a complete disaster. The white/yellow pus starts from the this micro cut under his chin and slowly works its way through his right side and toward his gill. It just spread from this one tiny hole like tentacles. His other side which I also removed the skin is perfect, clean, no blood, no puss and looks like a normal healthy fish. The infection never got in his throat and his throat has no damage or anything stuck in it. The rest of his body is also clean and gash free. His other organs are unaffected from what I can see.
His body had managed to contain this infection in this pocket away from his throat and gills and away from his other side. And clearly he was fighting it while becoming weaker and weaker. I suppose eventually the infection reached his gills thereby causing him to breathe rapidly, he mounted his last huge immune response to this area which resulted in the rapid swelling, and by then it was too late. His entire front right side was full of infection and pus and blood. A happy fat 6-7inch large triggerfish quickly faded away from a undetectable tiny gash resulting in a hidden killer infection.
Where did this infection come from? No clue. Maybe it was in his body and he just needed to be stressed by the cut. Maybe it’s a harmless bacteria or virus until it enters through a gash. Maybe it was cancer. Or cancerous cells due to the small damage.
Could I have saved this fish? No way. Even if I had found the gash. Could I have noticed him being sick sooner? Unfortunately no again. He just acted like himself. Eating and swimming and being a happy fish. His healthy chubby weight probably hid the infection from me because he was perfectly symmetrical. Also his dark color, rapid swimming, and tough skin made it impossible to see such a small cut in a 250 gallon tank.
I have taken some pictures of both his sides after I “dissected” him. I am no expert in dissection and have never done it before on a fish. I am hesitant to post the pictures because some people may not want to see them and others may complain that I’m a butcher and carelessly hacked away at a dead fish. I did this to learn why he died and to share it with others. I did not enjoy cutting open my own fish at midnight.
I do want to post the pictures but I’ll leave it up to you all.
Karen00
2500 Club Member
I think everyone will appreciate your post as well as the time and effort you took to investigate this in case we encounter a similar issue. Thank you! Most creatures seem to have an amazing ability to deal with adverse conditions like this and more often than not it is already too late to treat them by the time they start showing signs of distress or physical indicators like swelling. How many times have we said "but he/she was fine yesterday"? It's always the suddeness of the loss that is hard to deal with.I’m posting this picture for now to show how tiny the damage was. This is after pus came out of it, so it is easier to identify by that white dot. If it offends anyone, I apologize.
Jay Hemdal
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Sorry to hear you lost the fish. So it was an abscess. One that large would not have been survivable without surgery to drain it, and injectable antibiotics, and then, probably not. You're right about the trigger's tough skin creating a site for the abscess to form, in other fish, it would have broken through the skin. As far as where did the bacteria come from? The simple answer is the environment; Pseudomonas and Aeromonas bacteria are found in all aquariums (plus other nasty species). Under certain conditions, they become pathogenic....remember to always wear gloves when working around aquariums if you have a break in your skin.
Jay
Thank you.
I will start to wear gloves while cleaning the tank if i have a cut. Scary to think know it’s in the water. Thank you for your advice about the abscess. I hope it never happens again or to any other fish lovers. This was a perfect storm of hidden problems and fish who hid the problem extremely well until his last day.
WARNING. IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO SEE PHOTOS OF A DEAD DISSECTED FISH, PLEASE DO NOT SCROLL DOWN. People eat dead fish and see dead fish at the market so I hope it’s not a big deal posting these. If you’re offended or believe I did something awful or a bad job dissecting, I apologize.
You can clearly see in the photos the difference between the 2 sides of the fish and the extensive infectious damage he has on his right side.
You can clearly see in the photos the difference between the 2 sides of the fish and the extensive infectious damage he has on his right side.
JumboShrimp
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Very tragic, yet due to your efforts, concern and skills, very informative to the R2R community.
sam2110
Active Member
poor fish was in a bad way, thank you for sharing you experience it was quite educational. Fortunately I've never had anything like this happen to my fish yet. I will be keep more of a careful watch on the tank from now on as I have a royal gramma that likes to try and start fights with a six line wrasse, the gramma always ends up with broken skin and scales missing. Hopefully I will be able to notice signs of infection in the future, should it happen to mine.
Tired
2500 Club Member
I'd like to suggest that anyone reading this thread add clove oil to their fish medications. It can make a decent anesthetic, but the use you're more likely to find is euthanasia. Slowly adding clove oil to a container with the fish in it will sedate it, then more oil will eventually kill it. Full instructions are easy to look up if you need them. Just be sure to leave the fish in the mixture for a few hours after you think it's died, to be sure it's not just heavily sedated. I've used it a few times, on fish too injured or sick to recover, and it works really well. They just kind of slow down, then stop moving, then stop breathing. About the easiest, safest, and most humane euthanasia method you can easily get ahold of.
I thought he was suggesting mixing medication with clove oil. My bad haha. He also talked about killing fish in a thread that was aimed at saving a fish which was confusing. I overreacted. Still quite sad/upset that the fish died and didn’t want anyone taking the advice to add clove oil to their medications. Sorry Tired!
