Maroon clowns...is this normal behavior?

[Jordan Pascuzzi]

Hi! This is my first post and I'm new to this so sorry in advance. Back story, my fiancé has kept a tank successfully in the past and one of my best friends builds and maintains tanks for a living. I've kinda taken off with this hobby on my own and have a few questions. I'm tired of harassing them (and I'm sure they are too) and want to learn more on my own.

So about 2 months ago we started up our 25 gallon tank. You can see what is in it below and I have included pictures as well.

*ignore the algae. I recently beefed up my cleaning crew, adjusted lighting, and am working on water quality to address that problem*


I'm curious as to whether or not this is considered normal behavior for maroon clowns and if I should consider getting rid of them.


We bought the two "paired" and when they came in the bag, the male was clearly beat up. Since being in the tank. They seem to have settled in and get a long ok but every once in a while it seems like they are fighting. We added a BTA and the female hosted in it after about a week. Now the female has taken over the left half of the tank and the male just seems to roam around.

She doesn't seem territorial but the BTA split last night and she has now claimed both BTAs AND is now harassing my torch coral. The torch has retracted since she started picking on him.

She is pretty aggressive with everything in general, the BTAs get really flat and basically loose any bubbles/tentacles at all.

so here are my two questions:

Are they "fighting" or is that normal behavior?? it almost looks as if they are swimming in circles. It seems like the male does the same to her and his fins look better than before...

Anyone have advice to keep the female from hurting the torch?? I actually bought it because the guy at my LFS suggested it because his clown hosts in it... but it's a small torch and she was pretty rough... I'm wondering if the torch will get use to her abuse or if I should just give the "pair" away.


Sorry for the long post, thanks if you made it this far

 

[Oscaror]

Hi! This is my first post and I'm new to this so sorry in advance. Back story, my fiancé has kept a tank successfully in the past and one of my best friends builds and maintains tanks for a living. I've kinda taken off with this hobby on my own and have a few questions. I'm tired of harassing them (and I'm sure they are too) and want to learn more on my own.

So about 2 months ago we started up our 25 gallon tank. You can see what is in it below and I have included pictures as well.

*ignore the algae. I recently beefed up my cleaning crew, adjusted lighting, and am working on water quality to address that problem*


I'm curious as to whether or not this is considered normal behavior for maroon clowns and if I should consider getting rid of them.


We bought the two "paired" and when they came in the bag, the male was clearly beat up. Since being in the tank. They seem to have settled in and get a long ok but every once in a while it seems like they are fighting. We added a BTA and the female hosted in it after about a week. Now the female has taken over the left half of the tank and the male just seems to roam around.

She doesn't seem territorial but the BTA split last night and she has now claimed both BTAs AND is now harassing my torch coral. The torch has retracted since she started picking on him.

She is pretty aggressive with everything in general, the BTAs get really flat and basically loose any bubbles/tentacles at all.

so here are my two questions:

Are they "fighting" or is that normal behavior?? it almost looks as if they are swimming in circles. It seems like the male does the same to her and his fins look better than before...

Anyone have advice to keep the female from hurting the torch?? I actually bought it because the guy at my LFS suggested it because his clown hosts in it... but it's a small torch and she was pretty rough... I'm wondering if the torch will get use to her abuse or if I should just give the "pair" away.


Sorry for the long post, thanks if you made it this far

Yes. Idk how much you know so I'll give you the full rundown, but all clownfish are born male and the dominant clownfish transitions to a female and grows while the male stays submissive and halts its growth. Female clownfish is exercising and securing its dominance. As for harming the torch I'm not 100% sure about a fix to that. Maybe since a clownfish finds a spot it likes it won't want to let go then by that logic maybe moving it might help.

Oh and PS: Welcome to R2R

 

[Smarkow]

I'm curious as to whether or not this is considered normal behavior for maroon clowns and if I should consider getting rid of them.

Maroons are particularly aggressive, but also really gorgeous. I think this is normal behavior from time to time, though if they have really been in for 2 m then they should be settling in.

The key is that the male has room to escape. The proverbial couch?

Happy reefing. My Fianceé loves the hobby almost as much as I do. Count yourself lucky, or maybe he’s lucky? You’re both lucky? I’m lucky too! It’s way easier this way

 

[Dennco2000]

Thats normal for females in general regardless of species although more common in homosapiens.

 

[RIreefGuy]

Welcome to R2R!! Clowns are funny ; it's eally hard to say what's normal lol. We are glad u are here and please keep us posted! I agree with trying a new location for the torch =)

 

[Peace River]

Welcome to R2R!!!

Keep the clowns - they're doing what clowns do (although the torch may not understand or live through the added attention)!

 

[ReefSCTim]

Yes. Idk how much you know so I'll give you the full rundown, but all clownfish are born male and the dominant clownfish transitions to a female and grows while the male stays submissive and halts its growth. Female clownfish is exercising and securing its dominance. As for harming the torch I'm not 100% sure about a fix to that. Maybe since a clownfish finds a spot it likes it won't want to let go then by that logic maybe moving it might help.

Oh and PS: Welcome to R2R

Well that is certainly interesting to know that the female swims to assert its dominance. Got a replacement female for the other clown that was much smaller than either of the others. The new female clown stays in the corner and swims downward almost all day long. It drives me crazy. It seems unproductive to me but obviously it’s a dominance thing. The male sits there almost all day long and just watches her. Hope she settles in at some point and stops driving me crazy. I bought an elegance coral in hopes that they might host it but no such luck.

 

[Dennco2000]

This reminds me of an old story, So I'm good at building a tank with uncommon tank mates i.e. fish you wouldn't normally put together. So as I was adding 3 small dominoes at the end of my fish introduction to my established tank and my female clown immediately killed 2 of the 3 domino's voraciously but let the 3rd live never to attack it again? The domino damsel is now the size of my yellow tang and the only thing it will aggressively attack is me lol.
As for my clown it has no enemies and is very friendly.. Go figure?

 

[Smarkow]

This reminds me of an old story, So I'm good at building a tank with uncommon tank mates i.e. fish you wouldn't normally put together. So as I was adding 3 small dominoes at the end of my fish introduction to my established tank and my female clown immediately killed 2 of the 3 domino's voraciously but let the 3rd live never to attack it again? The domino damsel is now the size of my yellow tang and the only thing it will aggressively attack is me lol.
As for my clown it has no enemies and is very friendly.. Go figure?

Speculating here: do you think the female clown killed two female dominos but let the male domino live? I wonder if bc damsels and clowns are so close biologically there are hormonal or other signals the female clown saw as threatening?

 

[Dennco2000]

Not sure. I actually don't know of my domino is a male or female?

 

[landlubber]

aggression in maroon clowns is pretty much the norm but so is hyper-aggression. one other thing that people miss is how freaking big they get in comparison to the usual species of clowns. it isn't uncommon to have them grow as big as a your hand.

 

[virtual reality]

Welcome to R2R Jordan.

 

[crusso1993]

Welcome to R2R, Jordan!

 

[Lukas75]

Welcome!!! and yes Maroons are typically higher on the aggression side of things. I currently have five or six nems and my girl claims them all and beats me up whenever I try to do anything in the tank.

As for the aggression against the torch, mine is actually very gentle with her nems, but my last maroon was not. I was concerned with how aggressively she went at it, but apparently this is normal. I would try moving the torch away from her nems and see if she leaves it alone.

As for the nems not bubbling up, to my knowledge no one has figured out why they do and do not bubble up under certain conditions. Mine seems to bubble up under a whiter spectrum of light and strings out under a bluer spectrum. That's the only thing I can think of anyways.

 

[SDK]

Welcome to R2R! Glad to have you here.

Those clowns are too young and too close in size to be a fully formed pair. You were sold two young fish that are (hopefully) on their way to becoming a pair. With Maroons in particular, you will need to keep an eye on this.

Ideally at that age you would want to see a bigger size difference that results in one fish being so overmatched that they accept the dominance fight as a done deal.

Your slightly smaller “male” may not be ready to give in just yet, so just keep observing. If they have been together for any length of time and are both alive, that’s a good sign.

25 gallons is right on the edge of too small for a pair of Maroon Clowns. Do not add any more fish and seriously consider eventually getting a 40 gallon tank for them.

Best of luck and keep us posted. It may not be the worst idea to buy an inexpensive acclimation box. It’s a good thing to have on hand with Maroons.

 

[Jordan Pascuzzi]

Welcome to R2R! Glad to have you here.

Those clowns are too young and too close in size to be a fully formed pair. You were sold two young fish that are (hopefully) on their way to becoming a pair. With Maroons in particular, you will need to keep an eye on this.

Ideally at that age you would want to see a bigger size difference that results in one fish being so overmatched that they accept the dominance fight as a done deal.

Your slightly smaller “male” may not be ready to give in just yet, so just keep observing. If they have been together for any length of time and are both alive, that’s a good sign.

25 gallons is right on the edge of too small for a pair of Maroon Clowns. Do not add any more fish and seriously consider eventually getting a 40 gallon tank for them.

Best of luck and keep us posted. It may not be the worst idea to buy an inexpensive acclimation box. It’s a good thing to have on hand with Maroons.

Thanks! I do plan to get a bigger tank sooner than later, less water maintenance would be nice but I'm not sure if that picture shows it well, the female is significantly bigger... 40-50% more I'd say. I didn't know the maroons got so big so I will have to keep an eye on that. He (or the smaller if he isn't a "he" yet) does have plenty of places to hide and "she doesn't attempt to chase him. She's just somewhat protective of the nems. although today I watched for maybe 10 mins and she let him get pretty close. We'll see. Thanks for the input!

 

[Jordan Pascuzzi]

Thank you all for the great advice and the welcome. I love the "couch" reference lol He (if it is a "he" yet) definitely has room to hide and "she" doesn't chase him. It seems like they scuffle a bit and then separate but I'm not sure it's really aggressive. They kinda swim around eachother...if anything lately it looks like the small clown is kinda rubbing up against the larger... I am going to post more pics below. If anything just for more info, I will take everyones advice and just watch them for now. I have considered trading them in, I did read recently that they are more aggressive.... Go figure that's what we picked lol.

 

[Jordan Pascuzzi]

You can see the smaller of the two looks pretty beat up still. His sides were bad but he looks a lot better. You can see in the background of the picture of him where the bubble tip is.. and then that the larger clown is in the bubble tip. She lets him get really close and doesn't seem bothered. I feel like if she was going to kill him she would've by now... Also!! I said 2 months but they've actually only been together for a little over 1 month so I'll just give it some time. Thanks again for the advice and warm welcome!

 

[Indiana Reefin]

Yes. Idk how much you know so I'll give you the full rundown, but all clownfish are born male and the dominant clownfish transitions to a female and grows while the male stays submissive and halts its growth. Female clownfish is exercising and securing its dominance. As for harming the torch I'm not 100% sure about a fix to that. Maybe since a clownfish finds a spot it likes it won't want to let go then by that logic maybe moving it might help.

Oh and PS: Welcome to R2R

Clownfish do not all start out as males. They all start out as juvenile’s. From a juvenile they can change into a male or female. A male can change into a female, but once a clown goes female, there is no changing back to a male. In other words, if you put two females into a aquarium, they will fight to death.
Clownfish are all different. Your pair seems to be acting normal.

 

[Jordan Pascuzzi]

Hey guys, just an update today

Not sure if I mentioned but my BTA split a few days ago. The female (or larger) clown had claimed the BTA before it split. Since it split, the smaller clown has been eyeballing the smaller BTA.
Well today when I checked on things, the smaller is starting to rub on the smaller BTA and the larger clown is allowing it. When they do "fight" I'm seeing the smaller clown twitch which is apparently a sign of submission??
All good news!! Guess I should've been more patient, thanks again for your help!!