Mass critter hysteria/paralysis?

[sav_lion]

Hey guys, I have a strange emergency. Yesterday critters started crawling into my chaeto baskets in my display (new chaeto, just checking growth with lights). I thought it strange, but mostly ignored it until a few hours ago ALL of the damsels in my tank decided to jump/flop over, and hide INSIDE the chaeto. It's packed tight, so I was pretty surprised. I kicked them out carefully, and figured it was time for a water change anyways, so maybe something made them chase after "freshly cleaned chaeto water." SO an hour ago I did a 1/3 water change on my 150 gallon tank, and everything looked good, Then I started poking at the sump, and moved a bunch of rocks around. A "dead space" with no flow was stirred up. Black crap, sediment, whatever. Before I could turn the pumps off, it was sent to the display. Every Damsel sank to the BOTTOM, while every snail headed for the glass to go UP. The Damsels are still breathing, but seemingly paralyzed. The REST of my fish are ignoring it and seem ok (clowns, engineer gobies, butterfly fish). They are swimming normally anyways, but they're hiding and staying in the rocks.

I pulled out the test kit asap, and saw my PH was in the toilet. 7.0 or so? I used "PH up" and went through an entire bottle, PH barely moved. Then I added 1/4 cup of baking soda, same result. Another 1/4 cup, and the PH barely rose. I ended up adding an entire box, just to get the PH up to 8.0 or so. Amonia and nitrite is near zero, nitrates are a little high. I need to do another water change, but any idea what's going on? Damsels are suppose to be the cockroaches of reef keeping. Even the corals look fine.

Currently: I have extra hang on back filters running with extra batting and carbon stuffed in to try and clear the cloud in the water, and help get some of that icky stuff out.
The water is at 76 degrees (heater turned off while I cleared the gunk from the sump bottom)
Salinity is 1.026

Damsels are still on the bottom, motionless but breathing. Everything else seems scared/hiding but swimming fine.

 

[fishguy242]

hi, sorry to hear this, can only imagine what your alk is rt now,
add air stone ,
protein skimmer going crazy ?

 

[sav_lion]

The protein skimmer is going crazy, yes. What is the extra air stone you suggest going to do? I'm still trying to grasp what's going on here, any ideas? Did I have some CO2 cloud of rancid death or something lurking in the sump? I don't know how PH goes that low either. Using 6 step RODI water.

 

[fishguy242]

have no idea what toxin released,
but black in seawater is = to raw sewage.
adding oxygen to tank will help fish.
how are fish acting rt now ? 20 min later? breathing fast?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

The protein skimmer is going crazy, yes. What is the extra air stone you suggest going to do? I'm still trying to grasp what's going on here, any ideas? Did I have some CO2 cloud of rancid death or something lurking in the sump? I don't know how PH goes that low either. Using 6 step RODI water.

Adding an airstone will increase oxygen which will help raise pH.
The black stuff was most likely a small anoxic zone... Not a bad thing in and of itself as that's why people run DSBs, but you also don't want to stir it up.

 

[sav_lion]

They're breathing fast, a couple have moved a few inches. They're still laying on the bottom (upright, not on their sides). It's like they're having heart attacks and afraid to exert any energy or something. I have the skimmer going, and just added another power head. Attached an air line to it to help with oxygen exchange. Nothing dead yet, but the snails are climbing OUT of the water and hanging out on the rim of the tank. . Anemone is not digging it, and looking limp/loose. Feather dusters, crabs, shrimp and all the other sewage eaters seem unaffected. Coral closing up finally. So it seems the delicate stuff is having trouble, the muck sifters don't care.

 

[fishguy242]

how are clowns and butterfly doing ?
do you have alk test ?
#reefsquad

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

They're breathing fast, a couple have moved a few inches. They're still laying on the bottom (upright, not on their sides). It's like they're having heart attacks and afraid to exert any energy or something. I have the skimmer going, and just added another power head. Attached an air line to it to help with oxygen exchange. Nothing dead yet, but the snails are climbing OUT of the water and hanging out on the rim of the tank. . Anemone is not digging it, and looking limp/loose. Feather dusters, crabs, shrimp and all the other sewage eaters seem unaffected. Coral closing up finally. So it seems the delicate stuff is having trouble, the muck sifters don't care.

Do you have another tank you can put them in temporarily? Even a bucket of fresh saltwater with a heater and some circulation would work. Then you can get the main tank sorted out.

 

[Spare time]

I would do a massive water change.

 

[fishguy242]

agree with both, large water change, removing fish and inverts ,
only worry is false ph reading ,after adding half cup of baking soda.

 

[sav_lion]

Do you have another tank you can put them in temporarily? Even a bucket of fresh saltwater with a heater and some circulation would work. Then you can get the main tank sorted out.

how are clowns and butterfly doing ?
do you have alk test ?
#reefsquad

One clown is swimming along the top of the water. The other clown, the school of gobies, and the butterfly have vanished. I assume hiding in the rocks. The damsels are moving a half inch at a time along the bottom. But some movement is improvement over no movement. I added an extra bubbler attached to a power head. Air going everywhere in all directions, and a hang on back waterfall filter is churning the surface presently.

I used the last of my RODI water for THIS water change, I just did a 1/3 change (50 gallons) 2 hours ago roughly. I also just added some of that Prime water stabilizer/ammonia killer stuff. I used the emergency dose. It's 150 gallons, and I probably have 100 crabs, 100 snails, a dozen shrimp, etc just hiding in the rocks, let alone the fish. No way can I move everything. I have a 10 gallon tank in the garage growing various algaes, that's it for a backup location. So I don't have a lot of "good" water to work with. My tap water is AWFUL, so I can't just put a bucket together. Right now I'm just moving/dangling around a power head by the cord on the bottom, forcing flow in nooks and crannies to flush out any lingering stuff.

 

[Spare time]

For future reference, baking soda doesn't noticeably raise pH. I would also never just add it or buffer solely for pH as they increase alk.

 

[sav_lion]

I just turned on two UV lights. One in-line for the return, one in sump. If it can kill algae, hoping it can take the edge off of whatever bacteria/gunk I stirred up in the water. This is currently what I have going for flow/air exchange

 

[Spare time]

That stuff sounds like hydrogen sulfide. Here are tips for dealing with it if it was infact hydrogen sulfide (this is from http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/rhf/index.php#14 )

A. Remove delicate organisms from the tank system, if possible.
B. Perform the change when the lights are as bright as possible, preferably near the end of the light cycle. The lights drive the O2 concentration higher, speeding the oxidative removal of hydrogen sulfide, and the light itself will catalyze the oxidation of H2S.
C. Maximize aeration. A high oxygen level drives hydrogen sulfide oxidation, and high aeration will drive some off as volatile H2S gas.
D. Add an iron supplement to help catalyze oxidation of hydrogen sulfide and the precipitation of ferrous and/or ferric sulfide. Use one chelated to an organic; either ferrous or ferric iron will work.
E. Pass the water over iron oxide/hydroxide (GFO) to convert hydrogen sulfide to elemental sulfur.
F. Pass the water over activated carbon, which may bind some sulfide, and may also catalyze the oxidation. If forced to choose between carbon and GFO, I'd pick the GFO media.

 

[sav_lion]

For future reference, baking soda doesn't noticeably raise pH. I would also never just add it or buffer solely for pH as they increase alk.

MY PH was somewhere under 7 before I added it. I used an entire bottle of PH UP first, and still couldn't read the PH. In a panic, baking soda was a last ditch effort just to get it stable. It's very late here, no stores open. I have no way to test my alk currently.

 

[sav_lion]

That stuff sounds like hydrogen sulfide. Here are tips for dealing with it if it was infact hydrogen sulfide (this is from http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/rhf/index.php#14 )

Just to be clear, iron oxide is the chemical name for RUST if I'm not mistaken. Is that really a good idea/a real troubleshooting method? I thought it was one of the 10 commandments, thou shalt never have metal connectors/fasteners/bits/things in thy tank?

 

[Spare time]

Just to be clear, iron oxide is the chemical name for RUST if I'm not mistaken. Is that really a good idea/a real troubleshooting method? I thought it was one of the 10 commandments, thou shalt never have metal connectors/fasteners/bits/things in thy tank?

GFO is commonly used in the hobby as a phosphate remover. It is a powerful phosphate remover so you don't necessarily want to keep it in 24/7. It also requires a VERY fine mesh bag like seachem's "the bag" or similar 100 micron size bags (or a reactor)

Iron is also a very used element by anything photosynthetic in the tank. I dose sodium federate iron into my tank, and most trace element mixes (and salts I believe) contain iron

 

[sav_lion]

GFO is commonly used in the hobby as a phosphate remover. It is a powerful phosphate remover so you don't necessarily want to keep it in 24/7. It also requires a VERY fine mesh bag like seachem's "the bag" or similar 100 micron size bags (or a reactor)

Iron is also a very used element by anything photosynthetic in the tank. I dose sodium federate iron into my tank, and most trace element mixes (and salts I believe) contain iron

I googled hydrogen sulfide, it's something I'm not overly familiar with. The videos and pages I saw seemed relevant for sure. I Haven't moved ANYTHING in the sump in months. It's all been mostly mechanical filtration (external cube filter, protein skimmer, 3 sponges, 2 return pumps, and just a bunch of rock/bio balls filling the space. Only recently did I put chaeto in there, or even remotely try to add some flow/motion on the sump bottom. I just put a brand new power head down there to make sure it doesn't settle further. Added some bags of carbon and so on anywhere I have temporary flow. Fish are still laying on the bottom in "dead" spots with the crap as it settles. As long as I stir the water, the fish "springs to life" and swims away. I've NEVER seen anything like this. You'd swear the fish was dead laying there, and just a little circulation and it's up and going again. Nothing has actually died (yet), it all just looks very dead until disturbed. That picture for example is a clownfish upside down, laying on the sand (alive). Underneath him (the brown/grey) is some ofwhat's left of the crap I've disturbed between the sump and sand with all the flow added. Small no flow areas still remain. The sump picture there, same thing. Still have "snow" of gunk flowing around.

 

[fishguy242]

any update ??

 

[sav_lion]

any update ??

I've emptied the skimmer multiple times since last night. Every cup is the same, it's 3/4 slightly milky but mostly clear water, with 1/4 dark sludge at the bottom. It looks almost like mud, but fine as sand when disturbed. No odor to it either, it's weird. The fish have all come off the bottom except one. Only one loss so far, a Damsel tried jumping into the chaeto and went carpet surfing. A bubble tip amemone is on his last legs, I have him in a zip lock bag Floating in the tank in newer water. Things are improving, but the cloud in the tank is as thick as it was last night still. Thinking about adding a second skimmer to speed this up.

Based on your suggestions so far, I ordered some GFO phosphate remover with fine mesh media bags, and currently have another batch of RODI water nearly ready to do another partial water change. I'd say currently things aren't much better, but not any worse either thankfully.