Mass critter hysteria/paralysis?

[sav_lion]

My Hannah Alk checker just arrived, and I tested. You guys were right, the alk is way out of alignment. Somewhere between 7 and 12 is what I heard it should be, with many places saying 10 is a good place to aim for. Is that accurate? I'm currently at 20 even. That's double what's good/safe as far as I've heard. How do I go about addressing this, and can someone explain what it being high/low causes? I know absolutely nothing about alk, so an abridged explanation would be awesome.

have you checked alk ?

 

[vetteguy53081]

My Hannah Alk checker just arrived, and I tested. You guys were right, the alk is way out of alignment. Somewhere between 7 and 12 is what I heard it should be, with many places saying 10 is a good place to aim for. Is that accurate? I'm currently at 20 even. That's double what's good/safe as far as I've heard. How do I go about addressing this, and can someone explain what it being high/low causes? I know absolutely nothing about alk, so an abridged explanation would be awesome.

Yes on alk number (9-10 ideal). There is a close link between high alkalinity and a reduction in calcium. Calcium is needed for the successful growth of your corals as their skeletons are largely made up of it. Highest risk is alkalinity burn which happens because in relation with PAR in the tank, the photosynthesis process is increased while the corals cannot fully match the growth demand.
A small dose of white vinegar will immediately reduce alkalinity but will have effect on Ph in which high alk can act as a stimulant to increase pH in the tank and create further problems for your corals and even the fish so be careful if doing such
Obviously toy want to cease ant dosing of alk for a few days and for clarity, add a pouch of chemipure blue which will clarify water and keep phos and nitrates in check as well as reducing any toxins-If present

 

[sav_lion]

Yes on alk number (9-10 ideal). There is a close link between high alkalinity and a reduction in calcium. Calcium is needed for the successful growth of your corals as their skeletons are largely made up of it. Highest risk is alkalinity burn which happens because in relation with PAR in the tank, the photosynthesis process is increased while the corals cannot fully match the growth demand.
A small dose of white vinegar will immediately reduce alkalinity but will have effect on Ph in which high alk can act as a stimulant to increase pH in the tank and create further problems for your corals and even the fish so be careful if doing such
Obviously toy want to cease ant dosing of alk for a few days and for clarity, add a pouch of chemipure blue which will clarify water and keep phos and nitrates in check as well as reducing any toxins-If present

There's a lot to unpack here. How much is a "small dose" of vinegar, to get the alk to 10 or so from 20, in a 150 gallon setup? And is there danger to going straight there, or does it need to be done gradually? Is there a way to reduce alk without tanking my PH? My PH being too low was a problem when all this began, so I'm concerned how to reduce the alk without harming the PH. A fine balance there. I agree, no dosing for alk, I'll keep the alk/calcium solution stuff away for a while. What is chemipure, and why is that going to be helpful? Is that a quicky "bottled balance" chemical?

 

[vetteguy53081]

There's a lot to unpack here. How much is a "small dose" of vinegar, to get the alk to 10 or so from 20, in a 150 gallon setup? And is there danger to going straight there, or does it need to be done gradually? Is there a way to reduce alk without tanking my PH? My PH being too low was a problem when all this began, so I'm concerned how to reduce the alk without harming the PH. A fine balance there. I agree, no dosing for alk, I'll keep the alk/calcium solution stuff away for a while. What is chemipure, and why is that going to be helpful? Is that a quicky "bottled balance" chemical?

.5ml per 10 gallons. Another option I forgot to mention BUT you must keep an eye on calcium levels in the process is considering that since the calcium and alkalinity are so closely linked in the chemistry of the reef tank, raising your calcium levels directly can lower the alkalinity. Why this happens is because as the calcium in your reef tank increases, so does the precipitation of calcium carbonate.
Obviously the opposite effect can happen as well. This is why there are two dosing solutions available with both of these elements in them as it will ensure that both are being raised to a particular point without driving the other one down.

 

[Cell]

Adding an entire 16 oz. box of baking soda to 150 gallons would take your dKh from 7.5 to about 35.

@Randy Holmes-Farley can probably help best here

 

[PeterEde]

I am struggling to believe what is going on here. seriously.

 

[sav_lion]

.5ml per 10 gallons. Another option I forgot to mention BUT you must keep an eye on calcium levels in the process is considering that since the calcium and alkalinity are so closely linked in the chemistry of the reef tank, raising your calcium levels directly can lower the alkalinity. Why this happens is because as the calcium in your reef tank increases, so does the precipitation of calcium carbonate.
Obviously the opposite effect can happen as well. This is why there are two dosing solutions available with both of these elements in them as it will ensure that both are being raised to a particular point without driving the other one down.

I just got a calcium tester, these are the results. 465 ppm. With alkalinity at 20, what do you suggest? Add calcium, or is the calcium too high too? I have never played with these values before. Vinegar sounds safer, but I should probably get the calcium correct also. What would you do?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I just got a calcium tester, these are the results. 465 ppm. With alkalinity at 20, what do you suggest? Add calcium, or is the calcium too high too? I have never played with these values before. Vinegar sounds safer, but I should probably get the calcium correct also. What would you do?

You can add calcium but dont exceed 500. In this case with you inching to 500, vinegar may be the better bet

 

[sav_lion]

You can add calcium but dont exceed 500. In this case with you inching to 500, vinegar may be the better bet

I just added 7 mL of distilled white vinegar to the tank. Letting it cycle for a while. I will check the alkalinity again soon. Since alkalinity affects calcium you said, will the alkalinity going down harm the calcium level too? Or since I am high on calcium also will this vinegar probably be beneficial to both? I realize they both have to balance, I’m just not sure if that rule only applies when they’re being added directly to harm the others’ level. So far everyone is in good shape still. I think it’s about fine-tuning from here.

 

[sav_lion]

Oddly, the alkalinity tester still says 20 even. Any idea how long it takes for vinegar to work? Two different tests, I followed the directions perfectly.

 

[fishguy242]

question for anyone that can answer, does the hannah alk,max at 20.0 ??

 

[vetteguy53081]

I just added 7 mL of distilled white vinegar to the tank. Letting it cycle for a while. I will check the alkalinity again soon. Since alkalinity affects calcium you said, will the alkalinity going down harm the calcium level too? Or since I am high on calcium also will this vinegar probably be beneficial to both? I realize they both have to balance, I’m just not sure if that rule only applies when they’re being added directly to harm the others’ level. So far everyone is in good shape still. I think it’s about fine-tuning from here.

Good question and you will want to monitor calcium accordingly.

Oddly, the alkalinity tester still says 20 even. Any idea how long it takes for vinegar to work? Two different tests, I followed the directions perfectly.

vinegar. . 2-4 hours
The reason it may not yet have dropped is the Hanna unit max is 20.00 and it may yet be higher than 20

 

[vetteguy53081]

Oddly, the alkalinity tester still says 20 even. Any idea how long it takes for vinegar to work? Two different tests, I followed the directions perfectly.

20 is Max. Your alk may be higher yet

 

[sav_lion]

20 is Max. Your alk may be higher yet

As you guys pointed out, the concentration would be quite high with the baking soda. Even though I did at least one full water change with the partials, it could be responsible. Would you say another dose of vinegar is warranted?

 

[fishguy242]

i'd say no not tonight. too much too fast, not good.
would also recommend cheap API DKH test kit ,for now will give you a close enough reading,
save your hannah tests for later.

 

[sav_lion]

i'd say no not tonight. too much too fast, not good.
would also recommend cheap API DKH test kit ,for now will give you a close enough reading,
save your hannah tests for later.

Understood. I'll leave the tank be tonight, and check it again in the morning. If it's still at 20 by then, I'll repeat the dose suggested earlier and report back. Thank you so much for the support.

 

[vetteguy53081]

As you guys pointed out, the concentration would be quite high with the baking soda. Even though I did at least one full water change with the partials, it could be responsible. Would you say another dose of vinegar is warranted?

Vinegar- do it gradually. Nothing is sudden in this hobby. bringing it down slowly offers the best success