Massive fish die out

[KingAh123]

If you haven't added any fish in 5 months, the chances that a disease will be latent for so long and then kill all of them in 2 days is almost zero. Can you double check the ammonia with another test kit?

I only have one API test kit, maybe I can get it analyzed at a pet store? I can also see if I can do another test where I test the water in the display and in the sump to see if there is a difference.

 

[brandon429]

Post this in the disease forum

Compare validity of troubleshoots between there and here

Fish aren't the only means for disease to get in the tank

Show them that clownfish pic

We routinely see eight month delays in disease expression. Latency is common.

Let the disease forum know if your inverts were fine this whole time and post a full tank shot of your reef here, to show invert status

Try and find any single aspect of disease prep that was planned into the tank during your troubleshoot, list the steps you took for it in the disease forum thread running alongside this one.

 

[AlexandraDreadlocksPanda]

So you took ‘rotten smelling’ bio media from a canister filter, left it out of the water for three days, then chucked it into the sump and you’re wondering why your fish are dead?
My post mortem is that you’ve created a huge ammonia & possibly hydrogen sulphide incident, and the bacteria in the substrate in the main tank has probably converted it to Nitrite then Nitrate, so you won’t see Ammonia or Nitrite
showing up on test kits now… But the Ammonia has done it’s damage burning gills (black patches could also be skin damage from this), your purple Tang may pull through. I’d start doing some water changes being scrupulous to match your temps, salinity, pH and Alk so as to minimise shock.

 

[KingAh123]

So you took ‘rotten smelling’ bio media from a canister filter, left it out of the water for three days, then chucked it into the sump and you’re wondering why your fish are dead?
My post mortem is that you’ve created a huge ammonia & possibly hydrogen sulphide incident, and the bacteria in the substrate in the main tank has probably converted it to Nitrite then Nitrate, so you won’t see Ammonia or Nitrite
showing up on test kits now… But the Ammonia has done it’s damage burning gills (black patches could also be skin damage from this), your purple Tang may pull through. I’d start doing some water changes being scrupulous to match your temps, salinity, pH and Alk so as to minimise shock.

How big should the water change be also to keep the still alive corals alive I mostly have a small ricordeas duncans zoas and montipora

 

[KingAh123]

So you took ‘rotten smelling’ bio media from a canister filter, left it out of the water for three days, then chucked it into the sump and you’re wondering why your fish are dead?
My post mortem is that you’ve created a huge ammonia & possibly hydrogen sulphide incident, and the bacteria in the substrate in the main tank has probably converted it to Nitrite then Nitrate, so you won’t see Ammonia or Nitrite
showing up on test kits now… But the Ammonia has done it’s damage burning gills (black patches could also be skin damage from this), your purple Tang may pull through. I’d start doing some water changes being scrupulous to match your temps, salinity, pH and Alk so as to minimise shock.

I feel so dumb and depressed, honestly. I feel like it is all my fault, which it is. I have started to mix new saltwater to try and my purple tang who is still alive and swimming a lot honestly. I'm going to use the same salt mix as I always have so the ph, salinity and alk will be the same.

 

[AlexandraDreadlocksPanda]

How big should the water change be also to keep the still alive corals alive I mostly have a small ricordeas duncans zoas and montipora

If you have the capability, do a 50% initially, as that’s going to half the quantity of whatever is causing the problem, then see how it goes…

 

[AlexandraDreadlocksPanda]

I feel so dumb and depressed, honestly. I feel like it is all my fault, which it is. I have started to mix new saltwater to try and my purple tang who is still alive and swimming a lot honestly. I'm going to use the same salt mix as I always have so the ph, salinity and alk will be the same.

The pH, salinity and Alk won’t be the same in freshly mixed saltwater as what is in your reef tank, that’s the point….

 

[KingAh123]

If you have the capability, do a 50% initially, as that’s going to half the quantity of whatever is causing the problem, then see how it goes…

Calling the mission saving purple fish.

 

[KingAh123]

If you have the capability, do a 50% initially, as that’s going to half the quantity of whatever is causing the problem, then see how it goes…

The sump will be emptied completely of water and I will replace the media.

 

[brandon429]

Don't withhold information that shows this is a fish only event

Your clown has clear disease markers on it

Post pic of the tank to show invert status, that's key for troubleshooting, full vs selective disclosure

Parameter issues, claimed failed cycle issues, show up in full tank pics and inverts will not be ok

List the inverts and corals you still have

 

[brandon429]

Do you still have that shrimp

We need to see a pic of those corals too, for the big picture

 

[Nemo&Friends]

Do not beat yourself too much. A big mistake was made, it happens. As you did not add any fish and you had them for at least 5 month, it is not a disease, but it is related to the adding of the sump. Now that your purple fish is still alive, with water change it most probably will survive.
Now before adding the sump again, clean it thoroughly with bleach. Then rinse, rinse, and rinse some more before adding Prime or other dechlorinating product.
Adding a sump should be beneficial, as it adds water volume, it just happen it either was not cleaned enough, or too acidic due to the vinegar. Adding denitryfiying bacteria would help too.
Good luck.

 

[Lineatus]

Don't withhold information that shows this is a fish only event

Your clown has clear disease markers on it

Post pic of the tank to show invert status, that's key for troubleshooting, full vs selective disclosure

Parameter issues, claimed failed cycle issues, show up in full tank pics and inverts will not be ok

List the inverts and corals you still have

What clear disease marker are you seeing

 

[KingAh123]

Do you still have that shrimp

We need to see a pic of those corals too, for the big picture

Here is my montipora

My hermit

And my shrimp the other shrimp is behind the same rock I can't get a picture of him but I can see the antenas.
The purple tang will regularly by visit them I don't know if that is a good sign or not.

 

[KingAh123]

Do not beat yourself too much. A big mistake was made, it happens. As you did not add any fish and you had them for at least 5 month, it is not a disease, but it is related to the adding of the sump. Now that your purple fish is still alive, with water change it most probably will survive.
Now before adding the sump again, clean it thoroughly with bleach. Then rinse, rinse, and rinse some more before adding Prime or other dechlorinating product.
Adding a sump should be beneficial, as it adds water volume, it just happen it either was not cleaned enough, or too acidic due to the vinegar. Adding denitryfiying bacteria would help too.
Good luck.

I know it's just a little hard. Losing the blenny and clownfish just broke me had them since I started this hobby a year and half ago. I'm trying to mix some water for water change, dumb question maybe would it be possible because I think I can't mix all the water in time for a 50% water change I can at least take out the water required and fill the water that I have mixed which is almost 50% then fill the rest tomorrow?

 

[brandon429]

post this in the disease forum to find out. they'll ask about qt, fallow, whether or not the losses are fish restricted (they are, which rules out the param chasing going on) and they'll tell you at that point what the clown shows. not going to spoon feed it, an actual effort has to be made to get a big picture view. am thinking that's not wanted here. most dont want to do the work involved in preventing disease, so when all the fish die they refuse troubleshoots that account them for that choice.

as soon as we get a fair statement on living vs dead inverts and corals, a picture to go with the clownfish pic, then you can use that true big picture info and get the marks identified. first page in my cycle control thread, forty pages of jobs completed and disease discussion prevention: within eight months of skipping disease preps (a delay) expect 80% losses or better.

a delay is expected, and fitting here, and it's a fish restricted kill. That's been discussed for years now

it's a made up statement that any delay in disease onset here rules out disease

if we could get a full tank shot, that tank will look normal in every way. not expecting one though.

if that lysmata is still alive, there's another thread available about lysmatas being quite a helpful troubleshoot when tank parameter fish kills are being assessed.

if we keep getting zero input that shows inverts safe, and guessing about a few ceramic media + params + oxygen when reef tanks don't suffer from low oxygen, that's due to avoiding the sting of disease losses by avoiding the initial efforts required to prevent them. source for claims: see any troubleshoot thread in the disease forum currently running.

I noticed that posters here immediately ruling out disease don't do any troubleshoots in Jay's forum.

 

[brandon429]

also missing from the troubleshoot: biosecurity assessment

it's not just the last time they added a fish, it's the last time anything wet from a pet store was added without isolation fallow wait. I bet if we search out recent posts...

these are the details missing when grouped fish losses are troubleshot outside the disease forum. what has Jay said about fish kills where no other animals are harmed in the tank, a rapid succession of loss, in systems that take 0% precaution for disease preps and stock directly from pet stores?

 

[blecki]

What clear disease marker are you seeing

None, because you can't see anything on a dead fish out of the water except the glare from the fish being wet.

In this hobby you have to pick and choose who you listen to. You can look at and correct the obvious issue (sulfide from rotting crap in poorly cleaned biomedia) or you can make wild speculations about lurking diseases and claims of '80% death in 8 months every time'.

 

[KingAh123]

Update on the purple tang! Still alive and eating just fed it some algae pellets! I'm so happy.

 

[maxberter]

Update on the purple tang! Still alive and eating just fed it some algae pellets! I'm so happy.

Good to hear