Max nitrates for a damsel to survive cycling?

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Not really cycling, just simple 2 days early then my reef mature kit suggests. ammonia was < .15 (less then) nitrites were < .2 less then.

Everything else was on the money. They are eating and swimming like normal. Temps good, pH good, Alk good, Water is nice and clear with no algae.

I think there is a difference between throwing a few fish in with ammonia at 1ppm and nitrites at 5 vs what i did which might of been a day or two early but hardly what i would call harmful.

Also, now that the secret is out, my nitrates were 25.

Not 150 as some have suggested that is the harmful level. So with more info now posted i would not say what i did was cruel. They seem to be doing pretty well right now.

not sure why you couldn’t wait two days for your tank to finish cycling, but it’s done.

you need to test ammonia daily. if there is any ammonia, you need to dose prime or some other ammonia neutralizer on a daily basis. there is a difference between what will kill an animal and what is just disrespectful to the animal. if you put a fish in a not quite cycled tank, you should do everything in your power to protect them from the negative effects.
 
Not really cycling, just simple 2 days early then my reef mature kit suggests. ammonia was < .15 (less then) nitrites were < .2 less then.

Everything else was on the money. They are eating and swimming like normal. Temps good, pH good, Alk good, Water is nice and clear with no algae.

I think there is a difference between throwing a few fish in with ammonia at 1ppm and nitrites at 5 vs what i did which might of been a day or two early but hardly what i would call harmful.

Also, now that the secret is out, my nitrates were 25.

Not 150 as some have suggested that is the harmful level. So with more info now posted i would not say what i did was cruel. They seem to be doing pretty well right now.


You are fine. There is and will always be an ongoing debate on fishless vs. using fish to cycle a tank. What is animal abuse/cruelty to one person might not be to another. Not trying to start a debate. :)
 
If you can't wait two extra days you might be in some serious trouble with this hobby.

Nothing good happens quickly in a reef tank.

That being said your nitrate levels are not toxic. The fish will likely survive if the tank can properly cycle ammonia at this point. Daily testing of Ammonia would be recommend IMO. Adding bottled bacteria could go a long way as well.
 
So now you have a damsel dominated tank? How big is this tank?

Damsel dominated?

Lol I love how people make assumptions on forums

Normally I don’t reply to comments like that but to answer you

I have 2 SPRINGER damsels that are extremely peaceful and this particular type of damsel is known to be peaceful.

Second of all, they are the size of quarters

Thirds, it’s a five foot long 120 gallon Red Sea reefer 450

Would hardly call it dominated
 
yes Somehow I knew exactly what was going on with your system even though u didn’t explain anything. You also posted a ridiculous question and I assumed I could help a newb save some fish. But I guess you got it handled. GL kid
 
yes Somehow I knew exactly what was going on with your system even though u didn’t explain anything. You also posted a ridiculous question and I assumed I could help a newb save some fish. But I guess you got it handled. GL kid


Right...
asking what the max allowable limits are for a certain part of the chemistry is So ridiculous

You know what I have learned? Everyone forum regardless of hobby has a few like you

If I asked what the worst case pH was you gonna freak out about that too and harass me?

Save some fish?
They couldn’t be happier swimming and eating like mad

The water is just fine with 0 ammonia and .1 no2

As usual you know nothing of the situation but it’s ok to pass judgement

Apparently you missed that lesson in kindergarten about not saying anything if you don’t have something nice to say
 
Right...
asking what the max allowable limits are for a certain part of the chemistry is So ridiculous

You know what I have learned? Everyone forum regardless of hobby has a few like you

If I asked what the worst case pH was you gonna freak out about that too and harass me?

Save some fish?
They couldn’t be happier swimming and eating like mad

The water is just fine with 0 ammonia and .1 no2

As usual you know nothing of the situation but it’s ok to pass judgement

Apparently you missed that lesson in kindergarten about not saying anything if you don’t have something nice to say
No need to get upset.
 
I once overheard another customer in a LFS railing against Petco because of how cruel they were to their animals. Then he explained that one should use a damsel to cycle the tank because "when you're done you can just flush them down the toilet." Seriously?!
I don't know if using them to cycle is animal cruelty. Maybe it is. But flushing them ....

I used to use fish to cycle tanks, but then I learned about the other methods. Now I use bio spira and ghost feeding. I check the water chemistry every day and don't add livestock until it stabilizes.
 
I once overheard another customer in a LFS railing against Petco because of how cruel they were to their animals. Then he explained that one should use a damsel to cycle the tank because "when you're done you can just flush them down the toilet." Seriously?!
I don't know if using them to cycle is animal cruelty. Maybe it is. But flushing them ....

I used to use fish to cycle tanks, but then I learned about the other methods. Now I use bio spira and ghost feeding. I check the water chemistry every day and don't add livestock until it stabilizes.

And i agree with that.
I think there are certainly better methods then putting a damsel in on day one.

Which i would never do. I also think flushing a living creature after its served its purpose is disgusting.

I will say again for those that will come here and not read the whole thread and just give me a hard time because they are bored.
They were added with near or at zero ammonia and .1 nitrite

I did not dump them in a tank of ammonia and they are doing just fine. I also intend on keeping them long term which is why i choose a specific type of damsel.
They are actually very shy.
 
And i agree with that.
I think there are certainly better methods then putting a damsel in on day one.

Which i would never do. I also think flushing a living creature after its served its purpose is disgusting.

I will say again for those that will come here and not read the whole thread and just give me a hard time because they are bored.
They were added with near or at zero ammonia and .1 nitrite

I did not dump them in a tank of ammonia and they are doing just fine. I also intend on keeping them long term which is why i choose a specific type of damsel.
They are actually very shy.

Please don't misinterpret my response. I did not intend it as a criticism of you or what you have done in your tank, and I certainly didn't intend to give you a hard time. I read that you added the fish at the end of the cycle, which, in my opinion, probably does very little, if anything, to harm the fish. I also understand that you chose the specific damsel because you wanted that damsel in your tank long term. That's how I chose cycling fish when I used them to cycle tanks. I've had fish that I used to cycle tanks live happily for years. Was it animal cruelty? I don't know. They did not seem to be distressed through the process. The main reason I don't use fish for cycling now is that my tastes have changed, and the fish that can survive the process are not generally ones that, for aesthetic reasons, I want in my tank long-term.

I really just wanted to tell the story of what I overheard. Some hobbyists--certainly not all or even most--judge others for what they do without thinking about their own practices or the fact that there are viable alternatives. Clearly, there are many ways to cycle a tank. If your method is working--and it sounds like it is--then go with it. In the end, we all want our tanks (and each other's) to be successful.
 
I've been using fish to cycle tanks for over 30 years. I would definitely not call that animal cruelty. That was the way I was taught and how it was done back in the day and I have successfully done it many times over the years with 0 fatalities and the fish I used during the cycle went on to live full lives, (well as full as any captive fish can live). People need to chill out and find actual causes to support.

If you really want to talk about cruelty, think about the hobby as a whole. We are taking animals that live in the oceans that have more gallons of water than all of our tanks put together and shoving them into small glass boxes for our pleasure...just take it for what it is and enjoy the hobby. ;)
 
I've been using fish to cycle tanks for over 30 years. I would definitely not call that animal cruelty. That was the way I was taught and how it was done back in the day and I have successfully done it many times over the years with 0 fatalities and the fish I used during the cycle went on to live full lives, (well as full as any captive fish can live). People need to chill out and find actual causes to support.

If you really want to talk about cruelty, think about the hobby as a whole. We are taking animals that live in the oceans that have more gallons of water than all of our tanks put together and shoving them into small glass boxes for our pleasure...just take it for what it is and enjoy the hobby. ;)
Well said!
 
Please don't misinterpret my response. I did not intend it as a criticism of you or what you have done in your tank, and I certainly didn't intend to give you a hard time. I read that you added the fish at the end of the cycle, which, in my opinion, probably does very little, if anything, to harm the fish. I also understand that you chose the specific damsel because you wanted that damsel in your tank long term. That's how I chose cycling fish when I used them to cycle tanks. I've had fish that I used to cycle tanks live happily for years. Was it animal cruelty? I don't know. They did not seem to be distressed through the process. The main reason I don't use fish for cycling now is that my tastes have changed, and the fish that can survive the process are not generally ones that, for aesthetic reasons, I want in my tank long-term.

I really just wanted to tell the story of what I overheard. Some hobbyists--certainly not all or even most--judge others for what they do without thinking about their own practices or the fact that there are viable alternatives. Clearly, there are many ways to cycle a tank. If your method is working--and it sounds like it is--then go with it. In the end, we all want our tanks (and each other's) to be successful.


O of course not, dont mis interpret my response either haha
It was not towards your comments at all.
I appreciate your feedback 100% and agree with your thoughts. Things sometimes get lost on forums such as tone of voice.
 
I've been using fish to cycle tanks for over 30 years. I would definitely not call that animal cruelty. That was the way I was taught and how it was done back in the day and I have successfully done it many times over the years with 0 fatalities and the fish I used during the cycle went on to live full lives, (well as full as any captive fish can live). People need to chill out and find actual causes to support.

If you really want to talk about cruelty, think about the hobby as a whole. We are taking animals that live in the oceans that have more gallons of water than all of our tanks put together and shoving them into small glass boxes for our pleasure...just take it for what it is and enjoy the hobby. ;)

Isnt that the truth.

I really only have an interest in captive bread fish for this exact reason. Is it better then wild ones? I dont know but in my mind it is.

A fish bread for captivity in my head is very different then taking one from its natural environment.
 
To answer the original question, fish can handle pretty high nitrate. At one point in time another user on here was pushing 160-180 and everything was doing fine.
 
Right...
asking what the max allowable limits are for a certain part of the chemistry is So ridiculous

You know what I have learned? Everyone forum regardless of hobby has a few like you

If I asked what the worst case pH was you gonna freak out about that too and harass me?

Save some fish?
They couldn’t be happier swimming and eating like mad

The water is just fine with 0 ammonia and .1 no2

As usual you know nothing of the situation but it’s ok to pass judgement

Apparently you missed that lesson in kindergarten about not saying anything if you don’t have something nice to say

I don’t think anyone was being harassed here. Your original post contained very little info and the title said “Max nitrates for a damsel to survive cycling”. I don’t think it was a stretch for people to assume that you were going to just drop a damsel in and go through the entire cycle with it.

I don’t think there were any personal attacks and i think the posts saying that this was a bad idea were entirely appropriate here... not only based on what it appeared that you were doing, but also to help educate other people that came later and found this post.

You seem to take delight in the fact that you posted a message that was vague at best and downright misleading at worst and then watched people make incorrect assumptions as they tried to help you. If you posted all of the details at the beginning then people would have been able to post messages that applied to your situation.

It’s not fair to tell people that they knew nothing of the situation when all anyone knew of the situation is what you chose to post and there were clearly a lot of details that were held back.
 
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Isnt that the truth.

I really only have an interest in captive bread fish for this exact reason. Is it better then wild ones? I dont know but in my mind it is.

A fish bread for captivity in my head is very different then taking one from its natural environment.

Captive bred is always better than catching fish in the wild, (IMO) but a lot of the fish we keep are not being bred in captivity yet and that doesn't stop most of us from getting them. I was just making a point that people really need to think before they throw the "Animal cruelty" words out there. We have been cruel to animals since we saw the first one that we just had to keep as a pet and decided to breed the wild out of them. Just because we love our pets, doesn't mean it wasn't cruel to take them out of their natural habitat and force them to adapt to captivity for our pleasure.
 

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