Melanurus Wrasse died next day in QT

[adittam]

But what if you don't have a DT big enough for all those sponges? I'm just trying to not have to maintain 3 tanks for 76 days plus. I have my DT, coral/invert QT, and of course fish. I'm surprised this topic hasn't been discussed here. There were 2 people in my quarantine thread that said they use TTM. I'll ask them what they do.

This isn't to say anything bad about anyone in particular (seriously), but there are a LOT of people who do various methods *kind-of* correctly.

 

[QuinnLee512]

Actually looks like there's quite a few threads on TTM and ammonia. Will need to do some reading.

 

[Miami Reef]

But what if you don't have a DT big enough for all those sponges? I'm just trying to not have to maintain 3 tanks for 76 days plus. I have my DT, coral/invert QT, and of course fish. I'm surprised this topic hasn't been discussed here. There were 2 people in my quarantine thread that said they use TTM. I'll ask them what they do.

Ask them how they control ammonia. Ammonia usually isn’t an issue with TTM because we do a transfer every 3rd day.

I don’t think your wrasse died from ammonia. Sometimes fish die. I know male wrasses in particular don’t handle shipping transit well. My last order of wrasses from live aquaria had about 4-5 dead on arrival.

I’m not saying the ride home counts as “shipping stress”. But I just want you to know wrasses are notorious for being difficult QT patients. And the ones that DO cooperate might suicide jump. Seriously. Have a lid on your tank if you have a wrasse.

 

[Miami Reef]

I found this article. It agrees with @adittam method of using a bucket and bacteria to seed sponges. Seems pretty solid. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method-and-ammonia.389870/

 

[Spieg]

Ammonia usually isn’t an issue with TTM because we do a transfer every 3rd day.

This.

If you watched the video Humblefish made, he even states this a couple of times. Unless you're processing a bunch of fish at a time (or a very large fish in a small tank) in TTM, ammonia should never be an issue

 

[QuinnLee512]

I'm also looking at getting a lawnmower blenny and kole tang. I would think that they're better candidates for my first try at TTM.

 

[QuinnLee512]

This.

If you watched the video Humblefish made, he even states this a couple of times. Unless you're processing a bunch of fish at a time (or a very large fish in a small tank) in TTM, ammonia should never be an issue

This was also my assumption. When I had my clown in uncycled water, it took way more than 3 days for ammonia to show up.

 

[MaxTremors]

MaxT

if you read the fish disease forum that conclusion can’t be drawn. Post a place you think does more frequent live time work with feedback


a fine stand in for the links in the fish disease forum is anything by Humblefish

guess what methods he uses… even stricter qt and fallow and medication preps
These are people who advise others and then those others post updates months later
And years in some cases with better pattern than non quarantiners. I see disease emergence as a large factor when checking back on cycles completed.


it only appears those two dont have the best methods if we are sitting at home, looking at our own reefs. When advising others such as those examples show, anything shy of what they do proves to be fatal for the masses about eight months after setup. Most posts in the fish disease forum here are from tanks under eight months old, and I don’t ever get alternate sources of active work to compare with


alternate to the five hundred jobs on file in the fish forum where we can send entrants a checkup message, we get some person who owns one reef at home saying skipping quarantine works for them. That method cannot run a zoo, Jays method runs zoos.

As I said, I generally recommend that people quarantine when possible. My issue with the assertion that people who report success without QTing are untrustworthy and that their accounts are anecdotal is that that same scrutiny isn’t applied to people who report success in the fish disease forum. Both scenarios are just as easily falsifiable and both are anecdotal, and the incentive to falsify is the same. My issue is that you trivialize and devalue accounts that don’t support your thesis and give weight to those that do.

Also, with respect to the disease forum, it’s important to note that there is a difference between quarantining and running a hospital tank, and that if someone doesn’t QT it doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t medicate/treat disease when it arises.

I also think that it’s important to note that it’s not realistic to compare what a zoo does to what they average hobbyist does. A zoo has space, time, labor, and resources that the average hobbyist doesn’t have. As said, when possible, it’s recommended to QT, but it’s probably not realistic to think that every hobby can or will QT (and QTing properly is a whole other issue), I think giving advice and showing successes using both methods will give newer or inexperienced hobbyists and better chance at having their fish survive.

 

[PNW_squidz]

I put a bicolor blenny and a firefish through HTTM. I used 5 gallon buckets instead of tanks because of space. They came through just fine.

They are currently in a 20 gallon long for observation and while the display completes its fallow period. It's a bare tank with a few pictures pieces, a HOB filter, and a pump circulating the water. They are doing just fine and eating like pigs.

 

[Squidward]

delete plz

 

[Squidward]

LoL...this is exactly what the other thread is saying. People kill more fish in qt than saving them. Sigh.

A few losses in qurantine is nowhere near the pain and money of losing hundreds, thousands in fish you've had for years due to velvet.

 

[Tamberav]

I use TTM a lot and keep a fair amount of wrasse.

I feed small a amounts of cleaner food (like rinsed mysis), I love LRS but it fouls the water easy in QT so don’t use it here.

Before transfer I feed larger amounts and can feed LRS this day. This is the only time I would offer something like nori.

Ammonia has never been an issue since TTM involves 100 percent water change every few days. A fish simply doesn’t excrete enough in that time.

Stock lightly per water volume.

I do not dose bacteria to the TTM tanks. This is to avoid possible bacteria bloom that could lower oxygen. I just have not found it to be needed so skipping that potential risk.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

MaxT

if you read the fish disease forum that conclusion can’t be drawn. Post a place you think does more frequent live time work with feedback


a fine stand in for the links in the fish disease forum is anything by Humblefish

guess what methods he uses… even stricter qt and fallow and medication preps
These are people who advise others and then those others post updates months later
And years in some cases with better pattern than non quarantiners. I see disease emergence as a large factor when checking back on cycles completed.


it only appears those two dont have the best methods if we are sitting at home, looking at our own reefs. When advising others such as those examples show, anything shy of what they do proves to be fatal for the masses about eight months after setup. Most posts in the fish disease forum here are from tanks under eight months old, and I don’t ever get alternate sources of active work to compare with


alternate to the five hundred jobs on file in the fish forum where we can send entrants a checkup message, we get some person who owns one reef at home saying skipping quarantine works for them. That method cannot run a zoo, Jays method runs zoos.

@brandon429 you have admitted that you don't even keep fish so why do I see you show up and give advice to to people on the subject? You are offering opinions without any personal experience...let that sink in for a minute and take a breath.

 

[brandon429]

I don’t keep reefs over a gallon yet have cycled up and 100% assisted to completion about ten thousand reefs on file 1-500 gals across forums, logged, since 2001. How in the world am I able to assist on full size tanks only being a pico reefer? Scalable biology?




I’m directly saying by practice I’m seeing a concerning degree of disease loss when reefers skip fallow and quarantine preps, this comes from working in thousands of others reefs and it’s a valid pattern to relay.




Lowell, get new critique material.

What Jay runs in the fish disease forum, or what Humblefish runs are what zoos use. You don’t have to own a zoo to kill less fish, you need to source your fish correctly or keep them out of a display for initial observations at minimum…to be excellent in practice you can pre treat for known diseases certain groups of fish carry, this is what zoos do and its practical for readers to copy and test as much of the method as they can

Lowell, if you have literally anything to post as a link, we will read it so let’s see your offer. If not, slink back into the chair and you can bust my chops again for being a pico reefer next month.

 

[DrZoidburg]

I saw that before you edited it lol.

 

[brandon429]

Max Tremors

anyone who can own a reef can pay to own an observation and or smaller qt setup or buy pre quarantined, quit making excuses for massive wasting loss of fish in the hobby. Readers, open up the fish disease forum here and watch for new posts today, note the rate of new help requests and take note if Lowell’s or Max’s methods are the ones being used to help aquarists:

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

the biggest critics of work done there have no alternatives to offer, they’re just critics on and on and on.

 

[brandon429]

Dr. Zoidberg your prep for bandwagoning is noted, as soon as you board I’m linking your nitrite thread where the top chemists in reefing disagreed with you for pages. You still have not written a chemistry nitrite article to replace Randy‘s article we use as a reference is this correct

 

[DrZoidburg]

Yea ok whatever. Idc if people don't care or don't understand the chemistry behind the possibilities.

 

[DrZoidburg]

Again you bring up something unrelated to this issue here just because I spoke.

 

[brandon429]

Yes agreed I did, and thats why. It was a preemptive chops busting, you can thank Lowell