Metal Halides are the bomb

[oreo54]

As far as electrical consumption goes , metal halides aren’t that bad like people always say. People always point to LEDs as easyer on the electric bill . But wait a minute! Look at the radions @205 watts or some of the BB LEDs

bb LED's aren't NEAR their stated wattage.. 165w BB runs about 110W.
Few seem to run Radions FULL on..
MH's beam infared directly into the water unlike zero IR LED's.. Evaporation can be an issue but yes.. it's a substitute heater.

LED watt efficiency vs MH's is accelerating so more photons per watt.

LED's excel (to a fault) at not wasting light everywhere..

Now on the dark side.. Probably still, at a minimum need to run 2/3W to every 1W of MH.

Not going into spectrum ect, just stating some real facts.. for whatever its worth.
Reef lighting is probably THE ONE place where LED's aren't becoming the de facto lighting champion..

Well also anyone using HPS lighting.

Oh there is still a major cost differential..

 

[oreo54]

Hamilton Technology

hamiltontechnology

hamiltontechnology.com

Even you have to admit that ones choices in bulbs is quite limited from the "ancient" past of a decade or so ago.
Granted the ones left are fine though.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/jb/index.php

 

[A. grandis]

That is actually true. I simply don't listen because Halides are not an option for me. They consume way to much power! Not only the ballasts but then the extra AC needed to cool the room or to chill the water. I sure would love to try them but if I add anymore fish tank related money onto my electric bill the wife is going to freak out. Also I personally think that the extra growth is just not worth the huge carbon foot print those lights add. But hey I am the kind of guy that is thinking about going solar so that should give you a clue as to where my head space is at.

How do you know they are not an option to you if you didn't try?
You listen to internet stuff and believe it! So sad!
150W of a halide system will simply KILL ANY 150W LED available.
QUALITY is what halides and T5s have above LEDs.

 

[oreo54]

How do you know they are not an option to you if you didn't try?
You listen to internet stuff and believe it! So sad!
150W of a halide system will simply KILL ANY 150W LED available.
QUALITY is what halides and T5s have above LEDs.

Funny that's all you ever really have and, personally, it doesn't exactly say what you think it says.. but you know what.. I really don't have a dog in your crusade.. so enjoy.

 

[A. grandis]

Even you have to admit that ones choices in bulbs is quite limited from the "ancient" past of a decade or so ago.
Granted the ones left are fine though.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/jb/index.php

If it was widely available I would put all the links. There is more though... that's just one of them. Your post is provocative and poor this time.
Don't you have anything better to do?

 

[oreo54]

If it was widely available I would put all the links. There is more though... that's just one of them. Your post is provocative and poor this time.
Don't you have anything better to do?

Don't you?
Both systems have proven track records both have theire strengths and weaknesses.. NONE is "magic"..

 

[A. grandis]

Funny that's all you ever really have and, personally, it doesn't exactly say what you think it says.. but you know what.. I really don't have a dog in your crusade.. so enjoy.

Go find other people to bother, man! You have absolutely no experience... no reef tank. Why do you still post here?

 

[A. grandis]

Don't you?
Both systems have proven track records both have theire strengths and weaknesses.. NONE is "magic"..

You haven't even tried either one. Is this a joke?
I'm sorry. You musts have problems! Seriously!

 

[oreo54]

Go find other people to bother, man! You have absolutely no experience... no reef tank. Why do you still post here?

I like lighting..
Why do you continue to think anyone using LED's is an idiot?

Really, that does seem to be what you continually imply.

Suppose you need a brief history..
Started back up w/ freshwater LED lighting design.
Started hanging out at Reef Central because they had some of "the best" electronic gurus and I needed to learn "stuff"
also the LED ISSUES were fascinating from a photosynthetic/spectrum aspect.

So wanted another source of information on this "mystery" .
Ended up here.

Thought about expanding light design into reef tanks but there were too many unknowns.

One thing I do know is ther is not any spectrums that can't be emulated in LED though not 1) always cost effective 2) some wavelengths were still a mystery as to a need or want. 3) some light delivery and geometry problems lead competing light sources at an advantage/disadvantage 4) some spectrums were just more physically appealing.
5) like any organism messing w/ stability is always a "bad thing".

You know a lot of people don't own stuff but understand how to build stuff..

Oh and people LOVE choices..

 

[robbyg]

How do you know they are not an option to you if you didn't try?
You listen to internet stuff and believe it! So sad!
150W of a halide system will simply KILL ANY 150W LED available.
QUALITY is what halides and T5s have above LEDs.

Why would I try them?
I know they grow corals slightly better than LEDs but the point is that the power consumption is just too much money for the small benefit. Going from about 180W of LEDs to 500+W of Halide's is going to add a load of money to my electric bill and I do live in a hot place and I am going to have to compensate for the extra heat using more AC power or more chiller power, both of which is going to further compound the money I spend on electricity.

This hobby can become an obsessive black hole of money spending! I am already spending so much money that I personally don't want to add it up for fear it diminish my enthusiasm. I don't need to spend even more for Halide's.

QUALITY is what halides and T5s have above LEDs.

BTW I have been in this hobby 35 years. I remember when T5's were becoming a Hot item and the MH guys on RC said that they were total crap and they could not grow corals like MH. This continued over many years even as T5s came out in all the various spectrum's and higher wattage's. It's funny to see you saying that T5's are quality when for so long they were considered to be substandard and only for amateurs.

 

[A. grandis]

I like lighting..
Why do you continue to think anyone using LED's is an idiot?

Really, that does seem to be what you continually imply.

Wow, now you are trying to put words in my mouth.
Never called anyone here an idiot. Not even you.
I'm not even implying that at all.
The excuse of money saving on electricity bill isn't the way to go because in the majority of the cases it just doesn't exist.
You have no respect for other's opinions and experiences. Real facts can't be changed, man! Internet numbers and graphics just don't match the reality that happens in a closed system with corals. The stuff you learn online is abstract! I think we should stop here so the mods won't close this thread.
Control yourself and deal with the facts. You defend thesis that you like. That's all what it is.

 

[oreo54]

Wow, now you are trying to put words in my mouth.
Never called anyone here an idiot. Not even you.
I'm not even implying that at all.

Nothing beats a good halide/T5 combo in the short or long run.

How else would you interpret this?

"Nothing is as good as t5 or MH..so why bother yourself. You are just wasting money... you don't
know what you are talking about.. you are an idiot.. "
See that's how I see it..

I get your points but you present them passive aggressively.
don't talk about watts, or heat or anything because you are wrong.

As to Tuillo..
Everyone needs a spectrophotometer..

Spectrum is important.. regardless of the "tech" providing it.

 

[A. grandis]

Why would I try them?
I know they grow corals slightly better than LEDs but the point is that the power consumption is just too much money for the small benefit. Going from about 180W of LEDs to 500+W of Halide's is going to add a load of money my electric bill and I do live in a hot place and I am going to have to compensate for the extra heat using more AC power or more chiller power, both of which is going to further compound the money I spend on electricity.

This hobby can become an obsessive black hole of money spending! I am already spending so much money that I personally don't want to add it up for fear it diminish my enthusiasm. I don't need to spend even more for Halide's.

Point is: if you need to go from 180W to 500+W then you actually needed much more than 180W of LEDs in the first place to achieve just decent results. And the extra wattage would come from more fixtures to distribute the light without burning the corals with those LEDs. You could try go from 180W to 250W. Or 2 X 150W halides for example. Also halides will need less hours and you can have T5s for the rest of the photoperiod. The quality/distribution of light will absolutely change everything in your system. You can also change your LED for a good ATI T5 only system and it will already explode with life comparing to LEDs!!!! Truth!
If that happened in my system and many others, it will most likely happen in yours too!
Or keep what you have. But please don't believe only in numbers or people that have absolutely no experience talking about heat, this and that...

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

That oreo guy is just a troll and a tool. Just click the ignore button,

 

[A. grandis]

How else would you interpret this?

"Nothing is as good as t5 or MH..so why bother yourself. You are just wasting money... you don't
know what you are talking about.. you are an idiot.. "
See that's how I see it..

I get your points but you present them passive aggressively.
don't talk about watts, or heat or anything because you are wrong.

As to Tuillo..
Everyone needs a spectrophotometer..

Spectrum is important.. regardless of the "tech" providing it.

I don't need spectrophotometer at all. My eyes can already see the results. It's much simpler than you try to lay on the table. You are trying to scare the people so they can believe your fantasy.
Quality is better than looks or whatever people try to use as an excuse.

 

[oreo54]

I don't need spectrophotometer at all. My eyes can already see the results. It's much simpler than you try to lay on the table. You are trying to scare the people so they can believe your fantasy.
Quality is better than looks or whatever people try to use as an excuse.

I'm not trying to scare anyone, that's your job..

Quality is better than looks

Now that is interesting.. like a fast growing brown coral is better than a slow growing one colored up purple..
Excuse the exaggeration to make a point.
Everyone should be using 6500k Iwasakis..

In the old days the 6500k iwasaki was known for fast growth then 10, 14 and 20k bulbs colored up the corals but slowed growth. As a coral farmer I use whiter light for most of the day to speed growth but keep things blue for higher sales.

People have a right to choose which they want.

Great minds think alike - Using lower Kelvin lamps for growth and higher for color was a recommendation I was making back in 1997 0r 1998. This thread reminds me of even earlier days, when some stated metal halides were a 'poison.' When I published a positive review of PFO's Solaris LED luminaire, I literally got hate mail. The more things change, the more they stay the same...

Why do people run 6500K bulbs?

@Dana Riddle What do you believe are the best t5 bulbs for coral, appearance of the tank aside. For example if you had to run a 6 bulb fixture, which would you choose? All one bulb? A mix? I'd be interested to see what you'd put together. It's clear that the iwasaki is a favorite among halides...

www.reef2reef.com

Without naming names, the metal halide 'poison' comment was made in Freshwater and Marine Aquarium (FAMA) magazine's monthly column on reef aquaria. I'm guessing 1992 or 1993, perhaps later. Of course, many of the corals/false corals kept then didn't require a lot of light and the light intensity produced by halides was probably just too bright, and this statement was representative of our knowledge of photo-adaptation and acclimation capabilities of zooxanthellae clades. But what would this hobby be without controversy? I'm thankful that Reef2Reef discussions are civil, unlike the wild wet days on CompuServe's FishNet, where some of the flame wars got nasty and personal at times.

SSDD

 

[A. grandis]

That oreo guy is just a troll and a tool. Just click the ignore button,

He has absolutely no respect for other's opinions and is trying to come after all the experienced guys here. I have 25+ years of reefing and give my best advice to people. This is an annoying situation. No one sees me going into LED threads and telling them off. There are many myths about halides and T5s in comparison to LEDs that simply were seeded by LED companies. I don't like that at all! I respect everyone here and their choices. There are different opinions around, and experiences are what we should count when comparing anything. If one chooses LEDs because of the looks or anything they actually like about them it's a good choice for that person. I have so many friends using LEDs and respect all of them. I tried LEDs and the results were terrible in comparison! I've seen so many tanks and 99% of them aren't a fraction of the beauty they would show with halides and/or T5s IMHO. Just my opinion.
Results are results, period!
Sorry for venting.

 

[A. grandis]

I'm not trying to scare anyone, that's your job..


Now that is interesting.. like a fast growing brown coral is better than a slow growing one colored up purple..
Excuse the exaggeration to make a point.
Everyone should be using 6500k Iwasakis..


People have a right to choose which they want.

Why do people run 6500K bulbs?

@Dana Riddle What do you believe are the best t5 bulbs for coral, appearance of the tank aside. For example if you had to run a 6 bulb fixture, which would you choose? All one bulb? A mix? I'd be interested to see what you'd put together. It's clear that the iwasaki is a favorite among halides...

www.reef2reef.com

SSDD

Sorry man...with all the respect... I had enough of you... blah blah blah.

 

[oreo54]

Sorry man...with all the respect... I had enough of you... blah blah blah.

Tell me what fact I got wrong...
Did I EVER imply one needs to use LED's above any other light source?

You are right though.. getting too personal and ...pointless.

WHICH points don't you agree with?
I assume my first post set you off.

bb LED's aren't NEAR their stated wattage.. 165w BB runs about 110W.
Few seem to run Radions FULL on..
MH's beam infared directly into the water unlike zero IR LED's.. Evaporation can be an issue but yes.. it's a substitute heater.

LED watt efficiency vs MH's is accelerating so more photons per watt.

LED's excel (to a fault) at not wasting light everywhere..

Now on the dark side.. Probably still, at a minimum need to run 2/3W to every 1W of MH.

Not going into spectrum ect, just stating some real facts.. for whatever its worth.
Reef lighting is probably THE ONE place where LED's aren't becoming the de facto lighting champion..

Well also anyone using HPS lighting.

Oh there is still a major cost differential..

 

[A. grandis]

Talking about metal halide / efficiency / colors/ 6500K Iwasaki bulbs.
Edit: What he didn't know back then is that the MH reflector actually distributes the light much better for the system as a whole in comparison to LEDs. That is actually a huge plus for the halides.