Micro and nano bubble tank treatment

[watchguy123]

So nobody has a before and after picture. Cmon a Dino infestation and then gone picture. It's so simple.

Squamosa's growth pictures are great but it would be nice to see others as well, wouldn't it.

There is so much interest and excitement that if we "saw" lots of evidence, it would be so much better than testimonials and so much more impressive.


And the whole bubble size. So there are scientific articles on macro and nano bubbles and they even define sizes. But all we have so far are wood stones and claims that they produce bubbles both micro and nano size, seems best to describe them as best we can which is really small or perhaps tiny bubbles. I'm sure as someone tries to market a nano bubbler for our reefs, they will brag about their ideal bubble size, whatever it may or may not be. And maybe size isn't that important, who knows.

And I certainly understand that this is easy to try and inexpensive with a wood stone and air pump. But questions on safety are appropriate. Or you would be using electrolysis and loading your tank with truly nano bubbles and killing everything with chlorine. It's only appropriate to question as best we can.

I'm not aware of any peer reviewed journal for reef tanks. I don't think anyone seriously wants or expects a peer reviewed article. But most of us would be duly impressed with before and after photos showing coral growth and certainly photos with Dino infection and then Dino infection gone. It would seem that then someone will pick up the ball and want to share their side by side tanks. Simple proofs.

I like Thales skepticism and questions. Cmon, guys show me the money

 

[reefer45]

Or you would be using electrolysis and loading your tank with truly nano bubbles and killing everything with chlorine.

what the heck. An air pump will not add electric or chlorine to your tank.

I will like to see evidence support that outrageous claim.

 

[watchguy123]

***. An air pump will not add electric or chlorine to your tank.

I will like to see evidence support that outrageous claim.

Electrolysis in salt water leads to chlorine gas. Not an air pump. Got a hold your horses there a moment and read more slowly

 

[reefer45]

Electrolysis in salt water leads to chlorine gas. Not an air pump. Got a hold your horses there a moment and read more slowly

Electrolysis is the use of electric to form a chemical reaction. Why will a air pump cause electrolysis?

If you have chlorine gas in your water the air bubbles will remove it at a quicker rate then with no air bubbles.

 

[brandon429]

funny hydrolysis story edited. only had 15 min lifespan for quick readers lol.

 

[Rybren]

Electrolysis is the use of electric to form a chemical reaction. Why will a air pump cause electrolysis?

If you have chlorine gas in your water the air bubbles will remove it at a quicker rate then with no air bubbles.

He wasn't saying that an air pump will cause electrolysis. He was referring to a post made by someone else in one of these bubble threads.

 

[Squamosa]

any peer reviewed journal for reef tanks

Perhaps it's time to start one?

Lend some credibility to the game, since the playing field has changed and 'real science' is expected to play a part

I know who I would want on my editorial board

 

[Diesel]

Got a great idea, btw most of my ideas are great.
Last idea I sold for a LOT of money but this one will be free

 

[Squamosa]

I would like to add just a bit more if I may...

This is for the people who may have joined in late or who view the thread as visitors.
I started off with this method thinking, I'll give it a try and see what happens...no harm no foul, it's just air right?

Now, 68 days later, my tank is different, it has changed, the health and vigour displayed by the animals in the tank, especially the corals is, quite frankly, startling to my eyes!
The biology has changed, perhaps the chemistry too, as @reefwiser alluded to, I can't quantify it, but perhaps, other more knowledgeable people can try

I can say I've never been more happy with my aquarium, It's approaching those lofty peaks the Zeo people people used to talk about with reverence, in closed circles
It is a joy to behold, truly, a little slice of the ocean and it only took a dozen years to get here...and an empty bank balance

To @brandon429, I must offer an apology, I came out swinging earlier on, you and others, I believe, are making a big difference to the husbandry of marine aquariums.
You were right in the sense that now, I could provide reviewers of a paper with enough evidence of findings 'in the field', to at least let me submit a manuscript to them.

We have gone from,'it's only bubbles' to debating the size and nomenclature of bubbles we can't see with the naked eye
From, 'it cleans the sand bed', to good debate on the removal of dinoflagellates!
Wonderful stuff

I have been inundated privately with requests for help and I give of my time freely as with everything else given, as I'm sure most of you do!

I hope as the time rolls on that more people using this method will submit comparison images, but for the time being, I'll carry on submitting mine
As always, my door, inbox or group is open!

Happy reefing

 

[Squamosa]

As promised, a photo montage of my little red Acropora sp.

BTW, If someone could identify it for me (its common name), that would be great, thanks

 

[brandon429]

I absolutely like if anyone comes out swinging in any way that is both funny and accurate or at least pretty accurate then it gets pro-carved into acceptable.

regular posting gets passé without some back and forth, never detected it anyway. I had put Cruz on the spot and he didn't even do anything to me heh but it was to define boundaries of the method
Clearly people are happy to try, harmless to try and there are some good outcomes. This is a lot like the ATS push

There really are lots of respondents trying the two methods, enough to build legitimate sample sizes for threads/pics...both methods use natural arrangements that are accelerated etc it will be neat to see where limitations arise for the bubbling method. from the very few samples here it's been positive.

 

[Diesel]

Could it be the Rainbow blossom?

 

[Squamosa]

Could it be the Rainbow blossom?

Oh I wish or I hope so, when it grows out!!

I will instantly be the most popular guy in the reef club, hehehe....

Already have a waitlist of 2 people for a frag

BTW. those are some pictures!! (wolf whistle)

 

[Thales]

Clearly people are happy to try, harmless to try and there are some good outcomes. This is a lot like the ATS push

People had the same reaction to the ATS push - and we still don't have any simple experiment results from any of that....but people keep buying them as if they are the best filter ever.

 

[brandon429]

I won't ever need one. I found that actual target removal, including rasping and forced anchor removal a la turtle or parrot fish or urchin or metal scraping wand + oxidizer burn is a cheat to no algae
This breaks nine reef laws heh but the outcome has been so nice my ways are set. Others can stave off with various water actions, I say take it how one can get an algae controlled tank. My way is pure insult to the anchor area, gouges forced to re accrete for my amusement heh

sps above is one hundred times nicer than any from my whole city ~ this shot below shows ratio of bubbles inside frag bowl taken just now. The reef I use to learn about marine biology is exclusively bubbled, no other circulation method. Bubbles have always been great for me as special lid contains salt creep. There are people running these with power heads too... doing just as well which is why I rate bubbling neutral overall unless this thread is about to change my stance on dino control.

I don't use fine pore though...want bubble dissipation quick in a small area. I can see froth component is critical in above systems.

System started 2006
Corals, coralline, sandbed all cleaned and pruned the system is hands on, not compiling and hands off. Not enough room

The blastomussa at the bottom of the pic have been bubbling in a vase since 2001. Luckily transported among wrecked vases. Once survived 98 degrees tank temp wipeout from home ac failure lost all others had to restart with this bowl from 2006.

Must stay busy cleaning accretion and dremeling out growth. This is from ~2008 ish

The lighting is different. Kessil blue above isn't as daylight/crisp as my old power compacts

Same blastomussa. Grew it out 100 heads since 01. Blue sps on glass took over eye patched the whole bowl.

 

[Squamosa]

I won't ever need one. I found that actual target removal, including rasping and forced anchor removal a la turtle or parrot fish or urchin or metal scraping wand + oxidizer burn is a cheat to no algae
This breaks nine reef laws heh but the outcome has been so nice my ways are set. Others can stave off with various water actions, I say take it how one can get an algae controlled tank. My way is pure insult to the anchor area, gouges forced to re accrete for my amusement heh

sps above is one hundred times nicer than any from my whole city ~ this shot below shows ratio of bubbles inside frag bowl taken just now. The reef I use to learn about marine biology is exclusively bubbled, no other circulation method. Bubbles have always been great for me as special lid contains salt creep.

I don't use fine pore though...want bubble dissipation quick in a small area. I can see froth component is critical in above systems.

Now that's just awesome

 

[Squamosa]

This just shows my monti continuing to grow well, with no let up and good colour, nothing negative here, as far as this coral goes

 

[Squamosa]

Maybe my figures haven't been clear enough, so here's another angle

 

[Rybren]

Very nice growth. The coral looks great. Something good is going on for sure.

The question then becomes what is happening? There are a number of possibilities:

1. The bubbling has created an environment that optimises the potential for growth. That would be great and I hope that this is the case.
2. The coral is going through a relatively normal growth phase - slow to grow while it is adjusting to the tank, recovering from the shock of being fragged, and putting its energy into encrusting. Then when it feels the time is right, it starts to grow like crazy. I'd say that most of my frags follow this pattern. Some have taken up to a year to hit their growth spurt.
3. Some other conditions have changed in the tank that are promoting growth.
4. I don't know the age of your tank, but perhaps it has matured and stabilised.

In any case, I sure hope that it is the bubbles.

 

[Squamosa]

The bubbling has created an environment that optimises the potential for growth

I really believe this after having taken all that has been said here and my experience and observations into account.
I hold no affiliation to anyone here and operate as your standard home reefer
If you like you can spend $5 on an wood stone try the method for 3 months and compare any results you see, this will give you peace of mind that it works or not .If not, then throw the $5 in the bin and move onto another methodology

going through a relatively normal growth phase

This might be the case, as others have also alluded to here, but then I should be seeing this from all my corals or at least some of them, they're all growing the same, this little stubborn acro was different, I don't know?

Some other conditions have changed in the tank that are promoting growth

I believe my whole tank ecosystem has changed
I control for almost all other parameters, at least those I can measure with a hobbyist's test kit and now even some parameters using Triton,

don't know the age of your tank

It will be 2 years old in May

I hope it is the bubbles too