Mixing Salt

[Fsh]

Hi all,

Just wondering what best practice is with regards to mixing salt water? I make the ro, put it in a bucket with a powerhead and a heater. But how long should I leave it in the bucket mixing? BRS say here to you should leave it for 24-48 hours based on experiments they conducted. But they also say to follow the box instructions. I use Red Sea Coral Pro, and it says 'DO NOT mix for more than four hours'. But why would there me an issue with mixing for a long time? What's the difference between mixing with a heater and a powerhead and putting it in my tank that has a heater and a powerhead? What do you all think is best practice?

Advice appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Copingwithpods]

Only difference is the high alk will precipitate out if left mixing for longer. Other lower alk salts don't have that issue.

 

[BeejReef]

I've wondered that as well. If "X brand" of salt will precipitate off 30% of it's major element value in a mixing bin, wouldn't the same thing happen in the DT? I just assume that the fine people at that salt company and the many thousands of users of that brand know a lot more about it than me.. lol. Safe bet.

There are a number of BRS salt mixing vids, and in the case of that brand, all of them caution to follow that brand's directions. In a lot of cases, for most of the other brands, they found that clarity improves and the amount of precipitant decreases with a solid 12 to 48 hours of heated mixing.

 

[coralAdd1ct]

The 10 minute option isnt even on there!

 

[Fsh]

Thanks Coping,

As Beej says, what’s the difference in the tub and in my tank? How does alkalinity leave an empty bucket of salt water?

I’m going to dose alk anyway eventually. Should I get a salt that doesn’t have alk in it?

haha sorry coral addict, that’s my bad!

Thankd

 

[Miller535]

I use red sea blue bucket, and it mixes clear really fast. I believe as long as it's clear you are good to go. Red sea blue bucket clears up in maybe 2 hours tops. When I use to use IO it took a solid day. With that said, I still let mine mix for a day. I also live in Pennsylvania, and my mixing station is in my basement, and much of the year I have to also wait for my water to heat.

 

[Copingwithpods]

Thanks Coping,

As Beej says, what’s the difference in the tub and in my tank? How does alkalinity leave an empty bucket of salt water?

I’m going to dose alk anyway eventually. Should I get a salt that doesn’t have alk in it?

haha sorry coral addict, that’s my bad!

Thankd

Alkalinity is in every salt and a vital parameter.

Example.

I run a tank with an Alkalinity of 11.

I am dosing my tank to maintain 11


My salt mix after 4 hours of mixing read 11dkh

If I do a water change now I won't have a parameter swing and my dosing will maintain it.

If I wait 24hrs after mixing the high dkh will precipitate out, in the mix bucket or in my tank, without dosing a dkh of 11 will over time precipitate to a lower more stable dkh.

If I wait 24hrs the dkh might be down to 9,doing a water change now would drop the overall dkh of the tank.

That's why some salts have short mixing times because the dkh values can only be "guaranteed" for a short period of time.

I hope this cleared it up a bit

 

[Miller535]

If I remember right in the BRS video, even red sea pro alk barely changed over like a week or something.

 

[Fsh]

Thanking copingwithpods, that makes sense.

Yes they did a test video of different times of mixing. I’ve got to watch that one again to check what they say about alk.

Thanks all. Very helpful.

 

[Copingwithpods]

If I remember right in the BRS video, even red sea pro alk barely changed over like a week or something.

I think you're right, I have a similar experience with marine salt mix. At 1.026 it mixes at 10.5-11 dkh, since I run my tank at 9 I let it sit a week and by then it's usually where I need it to be.

 

[Uncle99]

I follow always the manufactures recommendations, so with RS Coral Pro, 4 hours, and she’s clear.
It’s to the manufactures benefit, to provide instructs for the best result.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I've wondered that as well. If "X brand" of salt will precipitate off 30% of it's major element value in a mixing bin, wouldn't the same thing happen in the DT? I just assume that the fine people at that salt company and the many thousands of users of that brand know a lot more about it than me.. lol. Safe bet.

There are a number of BRS salt mixing vids, and in the case of that brand, all of them caution to follow that brand's directions. In a lot of cases, for most of the other brands, they found that clarity improves and the amount of precipitant decreases with a solid 12 to 48 hours of heated mixing.

No, the same does not happen (at least not nearly as fast) in a tank because things like organics and phosphate coat the surfaces of growing calcium carbonate crystals, stalling precipitation.

 

[t5Nitro]

I think you're right, I have a similar experience with marine salt mix. At 1.026 it mixes at 10.5-11 dkh, since I run my tank at 9 I let it sit a week and by then it's usually where I need it to be.

This is interesting. I just recently, within the week, began AWC using a 32g brute can as my storage tank. I change a gallon daily with intention my water changes last a month before I mix new water. Anyone with AWC and saltwater sitting for this period of time or longer have insight into changes in water parameters? Additional testing or dosing needed every couple of weeks?

 

[jda]

Cold Water
Add Salt
Mix Overnight
Add My Own Stuff (Muriatic Acid and Calcium Chloride)
Mix and Heat
Use

Takes a day or two.

Stuff mixes better with cold water.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

This is interesting. I just recently, within the week, began AWC using a 32g brute can as my storage tank. I change a gallon daily with intention my water changes last a month before I mix new water. Anyone with AWC and saltwater sitting for this period of time or longer have insight into changes in water parameters? Additional testing or dosing needed every couple of weeks?

I mix up 40g of regular IO at a time and do 10g water changes 1x per week. Once mixed up and adjusted I leave it mixing until needed (last 10g is mixing for about 5 weeks). I've tested throughout and found no noticeable precipitation.

Note: I've read that heat might possibly be a cause of precipitation. I only heat just before a WC.

 

[t5Nitro]

I mix up 40g of regular IO at a time and do 10g water changes 1x per week. Once mixed up and adjusted I leave it mixing until needed (last 10g is mixing for about 5 weeks). I've tested throughout and found no noticeable precipitation.

Note: I've read that heat might possibly be a cause of precipitation. I only heat just before a WC.

Perfect, thanks! I just put an order in for regular IO. Hasn't shipped yet. Switching off of reef crystals.

 

[Fsh]

Thanks all for info. I watched the video on BRS about mixing, and what they discovered in their test is that the only salt you can't mix for a long time is the Coral Pro (just my luck). The issue is a drop in calcium after a few hours and a drop in Alk when stored. But they also found that the salt wasn't fully dissolved after 24 hours. The best for mixing and storing seemed to be Tropic Marin which I will get in future. To me seems that best practice is to mix the salt in heated RODI to tank temp, and use a powerhead to mix it for as long as possible.

Thanks for all your knowledge guys, I've just joined the forum but the info you guys have given me is better for me than on others. Thanks all.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The issue is a drop in calcium after a few hours and a drop in Alk when stored.

Just to clarify, no matter what BRS says they found (I didn't watch the video), if there is precipitation of calcium carbonate, alk and calcium drop out proportionally, about 2.8 dKH for each 20 ppm of calcium. There is no other pathway for either alkalinity or calcium to decline in a salt mix.

 

[Fsh]

It’s just from testing. They test cal and alk in intervals. The only one to significantly drop was the one that said not to do it for more than four hours - Coral Pro.

Just to clarify, no matter what BRS says they found (I didn't watch the video), if there is precipitation of calcium carbonate, alk and calcium drop out proportionally, about 2.8 dKH for each 20 ppm of calcium. There is no other pathway for either alkalinity or calcium to decline in a salt mix.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It’s just from testing. They test cal and alk in intervals. The only one to significantly drop was the one that said not to do it for more than four hours - Coral Pro.

While BRS is a fine source of information, I would not solely rely on it. Alk and calcium can only fall together in the ratio I stated, and anything else in a salt mix is a testing problem of some sort. Various issues with testing, such as fine precipitates suspended in the water, which can show in an alk titration but probably not in a calcium test, can skew the interpretation if one is not aware of it.

I understand that Coral Pro, like other high alk salts, can have precipitation of calcium carbonate. Others do to, like normal Instant Ocean, again, regardless of what BRS finds or says. I have a picture of my mixing barrel using only normal IO and it has piles of calcium carbonate that collected in it.

How much and how fast calcium carbonate precipitates from new salt water depends on several factors, most especially the alkalinity, the pH (which is determined in large part from your home air CO2) and to a lesser extent, temperature. We had a member test Red Sea Coral Pro in his home with long mixing and saw no precipitation:

Mixing time, Red Sea Coral Pro, and Precipitation Plausable? Mythbuster style

According to many, including Red Sea, you do NOT want to mix your Red Sea Coral Pro for more then a couple hours. In fact in this video by Red Sea the person mentions no need to mix for more then a couple minutes once the water clears up. Then the video goes on to what I want to test now, over...

www.reef2reef.com

So the results with respect to precipitation you get may well depend on your home circumstances as much as the salt used.